The Conservative Party

James not so Cleverly on Today doing a good "what crisis?" interview. It sounded a bit like "no spending cuts" means overall, so other services will be cut to pay for the increase in defence spending and Coffey's "plan" to ensure only a two week wait to see a doctor (the plan seems to be telling them to do it). And if councils can't charge more council tax local services will certainly be cut.

In the end he came up with "your interpretation is not my interpretation" which sounded a bit like he had alternative facts.
 
Gabriel said:
Talk on Radio 4's Today, from the head of Conservative Home, of the Conservatives putting forward a Sunak/Mordaunt leadership pact that could see Truss junked and those two installed to stabilize things. It would be done by bypassing the membership. Purely hypothetical, for now, but fascinating to see how some are viewing the situation.
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They will do anything to cling onto power and their cash ......anything that is except act in the best interest of the country and its population.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
It’s amazing that all the shit the conservatives have thrust onto the country since they came to power in 2010. Only now when peoples ability to keep the roof over their head is destroyed and when our pension pots will be worth nothing does the electorate realise that it is time for them to go.
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You couldn’t be more wrong. Conservatives believe in a strong/stable economy and that all things flow from that (good public services, education etc etc). Look at any poor country by relativity and you see real poverty with no social support, poor education and health standards for the general populace so the logic is without recourse.

Truss is a fucking idiot. She has broken the cardinal rule of being a conservative PM by tanking the economy. In reality she has only done what she said she was going to do, it was clear she had no convictions and no clue, the Tory membership should take responsibility for voting her in.
 
metalblue said:
You couldn’t be more wrong. Conservatives believe in a strong/stable economy and that all things flow from that (good public services, education etc etc). Look at any poor country by relativity and you see real poverty with no social support, poor education and health standards for the general populace so the logic is without recourse.

Truss is a fucking idiot. She has broken the cardinal rule of being a conservative PM by tanking the economy. In reality she has only done what she said she was going to do, it was clear she had no convictions and no clue, the Tory membership should take responsibility for voting her in.
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I think the type of Conservatism you describe hasn't been the prevailing ethos in the Conservative party for quite some time, well before Truss I would suggest.
 
threespires said:
I think the type of Conservatism you describe hasn't been the prevailing ethos in the Conservative party for quite some time, well before Truss I would suggest.
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Forgiven by circumstance. COVID being the main one. Prior to that we had austerity which, whatever the right and wrongs are of how it was implemented, was clearly based on trying to stabilise the economy.
 
metalblue said:
You couldn’t be more wrong. Conservatives believe in a strong/stable economy and that all things flow from that (good public services, education etc etc). Look at any poor country by relativity and you see real poverty with no social support, poor education and health standards for the general populace so the logic is without recourse.

Truss is a fucking idiot. She has broken the cardinal rule of being a conservative PM by tanking the economy. In reality she has only done what she said she was going to do, it was clear she had no convictions and no clue, the Tory membership should take responsibility for voting her in.
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Conservative voters certainly do believe in a strong and stable economy. That's not really in question. The problem is that successive Conservative governments since 2010 have introduced policy after policy that delivers the opposite of a strong and stable economy starting with extended austerity that has stunted growth, the ERG implementation of Brexit that has severely impacted trade, and finally we have a PM that openly wants to take from the poor to give to the rich and big business, and even many of the recipients of her largesse realise it's totally the wrong thing to do.
 
metalblue said:
Forgiven by circumstance. COVID being the main one. Prior to that we had austerity which, whatever the right and wrongs are of how it was implemented, was clearly based on trying to stabilise the economy.
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In retrospect it's clear that the policy of extended austerity was actually the opposite of what was needed, at least for longer than a year or two. The global financial crisis impacted many countries around the world and the ones that made the best recoveries did not do it through austerity. Investment in infrastructure funded by borrowing would have been acceptable to the markets and the growth generated by that investment would have increased tax revenues to sustainably improve public services for the long term. Instead we have a NHS on its knees, an exponential growth in the use of foodbanks and old people choosing between heating and eating. Meanwhile the Tory voting electorate have been distracted by side issues such as people on rubber dinghies and Corbyn whataboutery.
 
metalblue said:
You couldn’t be more wrong. Conservatives believe in a strong/stable economy and that all things flow from that (good public services, education etc etc). Look at any poor country by relativity and you see real poverty with no social support, poor education and health standards for the general populace so the logic is without recourse.

Truss is a fucking idiot. She has broken the cardinal rule of being a conservative PM by tanking the economy. In reality she has only done what she said she was going to do, it was clear she had no convictions and no clue, the Tory membership should take responsibility for voting her in.
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Conservatives do - this lot ain't Conservatives though - they are UKIP run by and LD who like every LD when they get power have no idea how to use it
 
west didsblue said:
In retrospect it's clear that the policy of extended austerity was actually the opposite of what was needed, at least for longer than a year or two. The global financial crisis impacted many countries around the world and the ones that made the best recoveries did not do it through austerity. Investment in infrastructure funded by borrowing would have been acceptable to the markets and the growth generated by that investment would have increased tax revenues to sustainably improve public services for the long term. Instead we have a NHS on its knees, an exponential growth in the use of foodbanks and old people choosing between heating and eating. Meanwhile the Tory voting electorate have been distracted by side issues such as people on rubber dinghies and Corbyn whataboutery.
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That’s a very simplistic view of cause and effect.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Dunno if you recall a couple of months ago ( at the moment seems like a lifetime ago ) Patel or Truss claimed the problem was single mums in the queue waiting to be jailed for non-payment of the BBC License fee and it turned out the number of people ( not single mums but people ) in jail for that was none..... they are out of ideas and out of control
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west didsblue said:
In retrospect it's clear that the policy of extended austerity was actually the opposite of what was needed, at least for longer than a year or two. The global financial crisis impacted many countries around the world and the ones that made the best recoveries did not do it through austerity. Investment in infrastructure funded by borrowing would have been acceptable to the markets and the growth generated by that investment would have increased tax revenues to sustainably improve public services for the long term. Instead we have a NHS on its knees, an exponential growth in the use of foodbanks and old people choosing between heating and eating. Meanwhile the Tory voting electorate have been distracted by side issues such as people on rubber dinghies and Corbyn whataboutery.
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I think it extends back before 2010. I think post war the conservative party was quite pragmatic, but the late 70's / 80's laid the foundations for it becoming much more ideologically driven. Though I don't think Thatcher was as much of an ideologue as sometimes portrayed, she did open the door for more rigid ideological views, economic and political, to become increasingly prevalent in the Conservative party.

Austerity was not an economic policy aimed at improving the economy for the nation as a whole because as you say if it was it would have been adjusted as it failed to deliver. It was an ideological response, from a number of different choices available, to the prevailing circumstances. Truss is just the logical conclusion of that journey to me, a rehashing of failed trickle-down economics and a fixation on GDP with no interest whatsoever in how that ultimately translates into ordinary people's lives.

The irony is that they don't want to talk about wealth redistribution given they are absolutely now the party of wealth redistribution, just not in the direction most of us (and a large chunk of economists) would like to see.
 
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Gilts are coming back down on the assumption Truss will u-turn on the budget and Govt and BoE fiscal policies start to work with each other rather than against.

Truss will take this as a sign her policies are correct, u-turn on the u-turn and it will be a bloodbath, leading to a u-turn on not u-turning on the original u-turn.

Economics is very complicated.
 
threespires said:
I think it extends back before 2010. I think post war the conservative party was quite pragmatic, but the late 70's / 80's laid the foundations for it becoming much more ideologically driven. Though I don't think Thatcher was as much of an ideologue as sometimes portrayed, she did open the door for more rigid ideological views, economic and political, to become increasingly prevalent in the Conservative party.

Austerity was an economic policy aimed at improving the economy for the nation as a whole because as you say if it was it would have been adjusted as it failed to deliver. It was an ideological response, from a number of different choices available, to the prevailing circumstances. Truss is just the logical conclusion of that journey to me, a rehashing of failed trickle-down economics and a fixation on GDP with no interest whatsoever in how that ultimately translates into ordinary people's lives.

The irony is that they don't want to talk about wealth redistribution given they are absolutely now the party of wealth redistribution, just not in the direction most of us (and a large chunk of economists) would like to see.
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Is there a not missing at the third word of the second paragraph?
 
BobKowalski said:
Gilts are coming back down on the assumption Truss will u-turn on the budget and Govt and BoE fiscal policies start to work with each other rather than against.

Truss will take this as a sign her policies are correct, u-turn on the u-turn and it will be a bloodbath, leading to a u-turn on not u-turning on the original u-turn.

Economics is very complicated.
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Indeed.

The FT today has a breakdown of the cost of different elements so you have the impact to hand when the news drops. The whispers are it will be today maybe tomorrow.

Given two ministers have been wheeled out yesterday and this morning to deny it - we are in crazy times.
 
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