US Politics Thread

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BayernMan said:
Perfectly sums up my views. Great debate from you and @ChicagoBlue!

In my opinion if the USA survived through desegregation which was just as chaotic to what we have now then USA will get through this intact. Desegregation was just as messy as what we see now in my opinion. A lot of dead and currently old but living white Americans fought tooth and nail to stop it(and still are fighting, look up CRT). But the writing was/is on the wall.

At the moment many Americans are seeing they are getting a raw deal. Rich are getting richer and the middle to poor are not seeing opportunities of advancement especially the younger generation who are puzzled with fear how they can afford to live their life their parents and grandparents did. These questions usually circle around healthcare, education, childcare, and housing.

Right now no one wants to use the “S” word in American politics but some type of non neo-liberal intervention will need to take place or we are going to be in the same situation as the Obamacare where the profit seekers still get to run away like bandits.

It’s sad the states that take the brunt of the negative affects are red states, especially the African American who take a disproportionate amount of the shocks as shown by COVID. But it’s great to still see voter turnout ever increasing even as the GOP gerrymander those states. However, in my opinion all they are doing is building a dam to block an ocean of water which in the long term is impossible.
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I hope against hope you are right, and that it is an ocean of water that breaks the dam and not blood.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I hope against hope you are right, and that it is an ocean of water that breaks the dam and not blood.
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My only main reason for having hope is that unlike the last Civil War where citizens didn’t really identify by their American identity and more of their local typically state identity the current and future generation are different.

Many historians have said that the Civil War and post civil war was when a true American identity was carved in the minds of citizens.
 
BayernMan said:
My only main reason for having hope is that unlike the last Civil War where citizens didn’t really identify by their American identity and more of their local typically state identity the current and future generation are different.

Many historians have said that the Civil War and post civil war was when a true American identity was carved in the minds of citizens.
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The problem is that many people today believe the last Civil War was won by the “wrong” side!

One reason people cite for there not being another one is that states are too intermingled today. Once the shooting starts, though, that’ll fix itself, just like it has with people making their way to other states for safe reproductive healthcare.

Once, the U.S. Senate was thought of as the 100 best and brightest this country had to offer. Today??? And, don’t get me started on the House!

Get down to the State level, and it used to be a tad more normal, because these people were your neighbors, but even there it has become MAGA vs Allcomers!

I just voted in my local and State election 30 mins ago, but I live in a (currently) Blue State. God forbid the Governor is thrown out and the MAGA Farmer running against him is elected!

Wife and I are actively exploring our retirement options, because there are just some places that, even though the tax situation might be beneficial, the mentality and voting history of the area is even more important. Would hate to think we are saving a buck, only to be surrounded by people with whom we share no common ground.

Crime is a big thing with Republicans at the moment, but it’s actually WORSE in red states than blue states! The gaslighting of their gullible voters is astounding!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
The problem is that many people today believe the last Civil War was won by the “wrong” side!

One reason people cite for there not being another one is that states are too intermingled today. Once the shooting starts, though, that’ll fix itself, just like it has with people making their way to other states for safe reproductive healthcare.

Once, the U.S. Senate was thought of as the 100 best and brightest this country had to offer. Today??? And, don’t get me started on the House!

Get down to the State level, and it used to be a tad more normal, because these people were your neighbors, but even there it has become MAGA vs Allcomers!

I just voted in my local and State election 30 mins ago, but I live in a (currently) Blue State. God forbid the Governor is thrown out and the MAGA Farmer running against him is elected!

Wife and I are actively exploring our retirement options, because there are just some places that, even though the tax situation might be beneficial, the mentality and voting history of the area is even more important. Would hate to think we are saving a buck, only to be surrounded by people with whom we share no common ground.

Crime is a big thing with Republicans at the moment, but it’s actually WORSE in red states than blue states! The gaslighting of their gullible voters is astounding!
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I understand where you are coming from when it comes to carefully deciding where you want to live. I’m in a blue state and being only two years removed from being a college grad I used to think I would move to a red state for the lower cost of living to build savings, maybe buy a house. However, my recent understanding of what actually goes in these red states has flipped those plans.

For example, I won’t step foot in an open carry state. As a black man I have enough to worry about with LE but now you want me to put my life in the hands of some crazy person? The Ahmaud Arbery killing and the shooting by Michael Dunn in Florida(and many others)really woke me up. It’s literally like the Wild West, actually probably worse. Growing up my immigrant parents taught me to always assume everyone is armed in the US so don’t lose your life over an argument and now I see why they pressed that point.

I don’t know how much is media hot air pushing the division but I can understand your worry. You only have to look at any MAGA rally or CPAC to see something is seriously wrong. I hope over time more and more poor whites in these states will realize they are getting shorted no matter how much they don’t like “those people”.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
The problem is that many people today believe the last Civil War was won by the “wrong” side!

One reason people cite for there not being another one is that states are too intermingled today. Once the shooting starts, though, that’ll fix itself, just like it has with people making their way to other states for safe reproductive healthcare.

Once, the U.S. Senate was thought of as the 100 best and brightest this country had to offer. Today??? And, don’t get me started on the House!

Get down to the State level, and it used to be a tad more normal, because these people were your neighbors, but even there it has become MAGA vs Allcomers!

I just voted in my local and State election 30 mins ago, but I live in a (currently) Blue State. God forbid the Governor is thrown out and the MAGA Farmer running against him is elected!

Wife and I are actively exploring our retirement options, because there are just some places that, even though the tax situation might be beneficial, the mentality and voting history of the area is even more important. Would hate to think we are saving a buck, only to be surrounded by people with whom we share no common ground.

Crime is a big thing with Republicans at the moment, but it’s actually WORSE in red states than blue states! The gaslighting of their gullible voters is astounding!
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I will be voting tomorrow, even though I know I'm pissing in the wind as far as Idaho goes.
I will however be taking the first ten days of November off work and hunting elk in central Idaho, no cell service for the most part..... swings and roundabouts
 
idahoblues said:
I will be voting tomorrow, even though I know I'm pissing in the wind as far as Idaho goes.
I will however be taking the first ten days of November off work and hunting elk in central Idaho, no cell service for the most part..... swings and roundabouts
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You are proof that one can be sentient and still live in the hinterlands to enjoy all there is on offer.
 
BayernMan said:
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"Our thoughts and prayers are with the family, relatives and victims of this terrible tragedy. This is not the time for politics - rather it is a time for reflection and healing." (This is a hypothetical statement in keeping with the bullshit that the NRA posts after every such tragedy.)

And so goes the right-wing sentiment. This and numerous other such tragedies will have zero effect on the Republican stance on gun control - which is this: zero gun ownership is a God-given, absolute right guaranteed by the US Constitution and any move by the socialist Democrats to the contrary is an offense against God and the rights of mankind. Or some such.

The only way this changes is if Democrats take majority control both the House and the Senate with a Democratic President; that the filibuster rule is overturned; and that the Supreme Court is somehow thwarted - as the uber conservative majority in SCOTUS will obviously rule that any sort of gun control legislation is unconstitutional.

TL/DR - same ole, same ole. Gun violence in the USA is going to continue for decades.
 
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BayernMan said:
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The tragic thing about these 1950's questions is that it's often written off as Trump bigots pining after life before gender equality and the voting rights act and when 99% of the country were christians, but the 1950's was so great (for straight white christian men & their families) becuase 1915-1945 completely reset wealth inequality across the western world, and it stayed low until the 80's

So many of our countries' shared problems can be traced directly back to Reagan and Thatcher, yet people simply will not see what decades of fallout has laid bare.

Instead literally trillions of dollars have been spent to convince people that every other change in the past 50 years is the reason they're doing worse than their parents.

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domalino said:
The tragic thing about these 1950's questions is that it's often written off as Trump bigots pining after life before gender equality and the voting rights act and when 99% of the country were christians, but the 1950's was so great (for straight white christian men & their families) becuase 1915-1945 completely reset wealth inequality across the western world, and it stayed low until the 80's

So many of our countries' shared problems can be traced directly back to Reagan and Thatcher, yet people simply will not see what decades of fallout has laid bare.

Instead literally trillions of dollars have been spent to convince people that every other change in the past 50 years is the reason they're doing worse than their parents.

View attachment 59365
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I agree with all of it. In my opinion these are the causes. First of, relative to when the GOP has power in the US the Dems tend to offer more material benefit to the people. However, in the US change comes very slow. That’s the way the system works. But as you pointed out, years of “voodoo” economics has caused inequality to spiral out of control much faster than the benefits the system put in place will allow to be fixed.

Just look at the student debt issue in the US caused by the rise of higher education after it was stopped being subsidized during the Reagan years. Decades have gone by and many have died with their student debt only until the recent past for the government to offer the bare minimum of relief for citizens. All that time where millions of lives were destroyed, and this is just one issue.

Sadly, this unresponsiveness of the government all these years has left many people suffering and searching for answers to these complicated questions/problems. For many this makes them susceptible to conspiracies in order to solve these problems and the right wing media has been exploiting this for decades.

I’m sure it this has similarities in the UK as well.
 
Sky News reporting the attacker was demanding to know where Nancy was.

Kinda points to the attacker being a Trump ****.
 
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