VAR thread 2022/23

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SamTheGuru said:
I have seen it since my comment and the offside call is insane. I don't think VAR would have pick that up previously and the new system has added a dimension to the extreme.
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Not sure what you find insane about it? He’s clearly a good yard offside.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Why’s that VAR and not the officials on the pitch to blame ?
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Because they chose not to have the referee look at the holding on Stones/Maguire fouls and did choose to have the referee look at the shirt pulling on the Iranian player.

The referee is also culpable, but this is the VAR thread, so I am focusing on their ineptitude (to be kind).
 
Stephen230 said:
According to the ESPN VAR expert, who is reviewing every VAR incident in the tournament, he reckons the difference probably was that Maguire also had his arms on the defender and also that he wasn’t in a position to challenge for the ball. Although he was critical of the one given and said the infringement wasn’t major enough to justify the clear and obvious error guideline, in his opinion.
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That's fair enough, but it's getting out of hand now. Defending corners/free kicks is more and more like a scrum. The referees need to be telling both sides that using arms as a defensive or attacking move in dead ball situations is a no-no. Every goal scored and every penalty incident will be reviewed by VAR for who used the arms first. Then the infringement awarded on that basis.

Then, for the Maguire one, IIRC, the defender started using his arms to block Maguire's movement, Maguire tried to get the defender's arms out of the way, and they both got tangled up. The defender started it, even though both were involved in it - penalty.

You can see in the two later games, that the referees tried to sort this out on the pitch, probably to no avail. It needs to be done before the match, or the tournament, starts.
 
halfcenturyup said:
That's fair enough, but it's getting out of hand now. Defending corners/free kicks is more and more like a scrum. The referees need to be telling both sides that using arms as a defensive or attacking move in dead ball situations is a no-no. Every goal scored and every penalty incident will be reviewed by VAR for who used the arms first. Then the infringement awarded on that basis.

Then, for the Maguire one, IIRC, the defender started using his arms to block Maguire's movement, Maguire tried to get the defender's arms out of the way, and they both got tangled up. The defender started it, even though both were involved in it - penalty.

You can see in the two later games, that the referees tried to sort this out on the pitch, probably to no avail. It needs to be done before the match, or the tournament, starts.
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I don’t think it is anywhere near as bad as it once was. Players know now that there’s at least a chance they’ll be picked up for it. There was a time when they could foul almost with complete impunity at corners. Plenty will still take a chance. I suppose it’s risk reward ratio and it’s still unlikely they’ll be penalised most of the time. I’d love to see it totally eradicated but it’s never going to happen. There’s just too many players in too small an area.

As for this specific incident, yes the defender did put his hands on Maguire first. But the officials are told to bare in mind if the contact was both ways and if the player concerned was likely stopped from getting a meaningful contact on the ball. That failed both those tests. Although clearly if the referee had given it there was plenty enough contact for the VAR not to advise him to reconsider.
 
kippaxwarrior said:
Take it you've never seen the film Short Circuit?

If not why not? It's one of the best films of the 80's!
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Not only not seen it, I’d never heard of it until 30 seconds ago. Although having just Googled it I’m getting vibes of ‘Weird Science’ with Kelly LeBrock, which I most certainly did watch in the 80s. Numerous times.
 
Stephen230 said:
Not only not seen it, I’d never heard of it until 30 seconds ago. Although having just Googled it I’m getting vibes of ‘Weird Science’ with Kelly LeBrock, which I most certainly did watch in the 80s. Numerous times.
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Short circuit is one of the better dark thrillers written about the dangers, both philosophical and real, created by the desire to replace a human workforce with artificial intelligence by corporate America.
 
Stephen230 said:
According to the ESPN VAR expert, who is reviewing every VAR incident in the tournament, he reckons the difference probably was that Maguire also had his arms on the defender and also that he wasn’t in a position to challenge for the ball. Although he was critical of the one given and said the infringement wasn’t major enough to justify the clear and obvious error guideline, in his opinion.
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I thought that when I saw an image of the incident, but when you see the incident in full, it is clear that Maguire was going for the ball and was impeded. His arm went around the defender simply because of momentum. It wasn't a deliberate foul by Maguire. Certainly not a 50/50 incident.
 
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Got to say I like the idea of the auto VAR on offsides. I am right in saying they're doing that in this wc yes?

It takes out the judgement element. Its a machine making the call, wrong or right we all stand by the judgement of technology. Might be the best thing since sliced bread.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Got to say I like the idea of the auto VAR on offsides. I am right in saying they're doing that in this wc yes?

It takes out the judgement element. Its a machine making the call, wrong or right we all stand by the judgement of technology. Might be the best thing since sliced bread.
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Yes semi-automated offside is what they're doing at the World Cup.

Some subjected calls are still to be made:
- When was the pass made.
- Was the ball deflected deliberately by a defender resetting play.
I'm sure there's a couple of examples I'm forgetting as well.

These subjective calls will still slow it down slightly but it shouldn't be as bad as it has been in the past.


The majority of the time though it's a straight forward pass and run, so from what I gather, as soon as the referee inputs when the ball was played, the technology knows immediately if it was offside or not. It draws the lines faster.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Got to say I like the idea of the auto VAR on offsides. I am right in saying they're doing that in this wc yes?

It takes out the judgement element. Its a machine making the call, wrong or right we all stand by the judgement of technology. Might be the best thing since sliced bread.
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Agree - if right or wrong, it it is given automatically and takes the officials out of the chance to make the decision.

How much time is wasted by the officials and VAR at present.

Similarly if the time wasting by teams is also added on properly, as seems to be the case in this WC , that can only be a good thing.

Seeing teams/ goalkeepers wasting time in City games, and then virtually no time added on is so frustrating. If the time was added on properly it might stop some of the blatant time wasting we see regularly in our games.
 
Stephen230 said:
According to the ESPN VAR expert, who is reviewing every VAR incident in the tournament, he reckons the difference probably was that Maguire also had his arms on the defender and also that he wasn’t in a position to challenge for the ball. Although he was critical of the one given and said the infringement wasn’t major enough to justify the clear and obvious error guideline, in his opinion.
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Not very expert in my view. Maguire wasn't in a position to challenge for the ball because he was on the floor, due to the foul.

Regarding the foul by Stones, it was a foul, so a penalty was the correct decision. I'm not sure when this "not enough of a foul" crept in to modern football. A foul is a foul. The way to stop shirt pulling in the area is to penalise it every time.
 
Paladin said:
Not very expert in my view. Maguire wasn't in a position to challenge for the ball because he was on the floor, due to the foul.

Regarding the foul by Stones, it was a foul, so a penalty was the correct decision. I'm not sure when this "not enough of a foul" crept in to modern football. A foul is a foul. The way to stop shirt pulling in the area is to penalise it every time.
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And also the shoves in the backs by the Dippers in the penalty area when players are going through on goal
 
MCFC1993 said:
Yes semi-automated offside is what they're doing at the World Cup.

Some subjected calls are still to be made:
- When was the pass made.
- Was the ball deflected deliberately by a defender resetting play.
I'm sure there's a couple of examples I'm forgetting as well.

These subjective calls will still slow it down slightly but it shouldn't be as bad as it has been in the past.


The majority of the time though it's a straight forward pass and run, so from what I gather, as soon as the referee inputs when the ball was played, the technology knows immediately if it was offside or not. It draws the lines faster.
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I thought the 'when the pass was made' decision is automated by an accelerometer transmitter in the ball?
 
Paladin said:
Not very expert in my view. Maguire wasn't in a position to challenge for the ball because he was on the floor, due to the foul.

Regarding the foul by Stones, it was a foul, so a penalty was the correct decision. I'm not sure when this "not enough of a foul" crept in to modern football. A foul is a foul. The way to stop shirt pulling in the area is to penalise it every time.
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It hasn’t crept in. In fact I’d say it’s creeping out if anything. There probably hasn’t been a game of football played in the last 50 years where you couldn’t find a foul at a corner if you looked hard enough. At least now they know they’re taking a chance. Until recently it was virtually unheard of to get penalised.
 
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