Is our military…

bluenova said:
I've had quite a lot of unfiltered access of the army recently and I'd suggest you don't have to be a sexist, racist, generally offensive, right wing c*nt to get on, but it sure does help.

So, unfortunately it's a no from me.
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That’s really sad to hear, but being racist doesn’t necessarily render someone to be irredeemably bad. Racism is illogical, unwarranted and wrong. But so are lots of things. Doesn’t necessarily mean that a racist person is poisonous or malign. Life is far more complicated than that. Four legs good, two legs bad?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That’s really sad to hear, but being racist doesn’t necessarily render someone to be irredeemably bad. Racism is illogical, unwarranted and wrong. But so are lots of things. Doesn’t necessarily mean that a racist person is poisonous or malign. Life is far more complicated than that. Four legs good, two legs bad?
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I'm not suggesting every individual in the army is inherently bad. I'm suggesting that, while there are many things that we could applaud about the army, the overall culture was shocking in the amount of prejudice.

While I wouldn't be quick to judge a 16 year old from Stoke, the culture is passed down from the more senior members, who should definitely know better. This was also in situations where they were supposed to be on their very best behaviour, and it would have been made very clear to them in advance that they were representing the army to the public.
 
bluenova said:
I'm not suggesting every individual in the army is inherently bad. I'm suggesting that, while there are many things that we could applaud about the army, the overall culture was shocking in the amount of prejudice.

While I wouldn't be quick to judge a 16 year old from Stoke, the culture is passed down from the more senior members, who should definitely know better. This was also in situations where they were supposed to be on their very best behaviour, and it would have been made very clear to them in advance that they were representing the army to the public.
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The armed forces are drawn from the society they serve and reflect it's values and culture. What you are angsty about is a British young men issue rather than an army issue.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
The armed forces are drawn from the society they serve and reflect it's values and culture. What you are angsty about is a British young men issue rather than an army issue.
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Not at all - This is a culture that is coming from the older and more senior members. Many are highly educated, and often from privileged backgrounds. And again, this isn't candid, behind the scenes stuff - this is in front of civilians, knowing they're on show.

I realise that it's a very different job, but young British men who worked for Sainsbury's wouldn't expect their superiors to be openly racist, sexist, homophobic etc. Given that the levels of control and pride they're expected to take in things like how shiny their shoes are, it would not be beyond the bounds of possibility for them to follow the lead of those telling them what to do when it came to their attitudes being a little more modern. If anything, you'd think it would be easier, given these young people are expected to jump through whatever hoops are put before them.
 
I don't really know. We haven't had a war for a while, but if we did, I imagine we'd find that the military is as underfunded and unable to properly do their job as the rest of the public sector. Not the fault of the people in it though.
 
I am usually out of sync on here but I see so many things, every day which makes me proud to live here.

However GDM’s point was ‘substantial’. I would still include the NHS, Premier League and the countries ability to push above its weight in International affairs. Were not perfect but its still a country, for all its faults, many choose to live in.
 
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bluenova said:
I'm not suggesting every individual in the army is inherently bad. I'm suggesting that, while there are many things that we could applaud about the army, the overall culture was shocking in the amount of prejudice.

While I wouldn't be quick to judge a 16 year old from Stoke, the culture is passed down from the more senior members, who should definitely know better. This was also in situations where they were supposed to be on their very best behaviour, and it would have been made very clear to them in advance that they were representing the army to the public.
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Can’t disagree with any of that, but I still think we should be overall proud of our military. It defends humane values across the globe and generally plays by the rules. It is still (relatively) well run. It is not institutionally corrupt. It is truly world leading in what it does.

Think there are plenty of things there to be proud of.

Like I said, life is more complicated than some people think it is, or want it to be.
 
bluenova said:
Not at all - This is a culture that is coming from the older and more senior members. Many are highly educated, and often from privileged backgrounds. And again, this isn't candid, behind the scenes stuff - this is in front of civilians, knowing they're on show.

I realise that it's a very different job, but young British men who worked for Sainsbury's wouldn't expect their superiors to be openly racist, sexist, homophobic etc. Given that the levels of control and pride they're expected to take in things like how shiny their shoes are, it would not be beyond the bounds of possibility for them to follow the lead of those telling them what to do when it came to their attitudes being a little more modern. If anything, you'd think it would be easier, given these young people are expected to jump through whatever hoops are put before them.
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I think you may be slightly out of date. Policy on racism and homophobia is pretty clear and it's zero tolerance. The RAF for example is one of stonewalls top employers, and the army is the most racially diverse of all three services.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I think you may be slightly out of date. Policy on racism and homophobia is pretty clear and it's zero tolerance. The RAF for example is one of stonewalls top employers, and the army is the most racially diverse of all three services.
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Zero tolerance should be expected as in every other place of work though. Doesn’t mean people are playing by the rules
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
If nobody complains it effectively didn't happen...........
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Would you say that the army is an organisation which encourages young recruits to question and challenge their superiors?

ps. I've just realised it's Christmas Day, so I expect the kids might be up a tad early. So, Merry Xmas and I'm off to bed :)
 
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