How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

domalino said:


so here we have the most pro Brexit person possible detailing the benefits for the rest of us that can’t remember them all.

I know The VAT one is a lie for starters. Not sure about the rest
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Well, we know the last lot of free ports was abandoned as being of little use both here and in the EU, and I presume the banning of environmentally damaging EU fishing practices means pumping raw sewage into the sea. That‘ll show ‘em…… and I’ve lost count of the number of times in Tesco when I’ve heard people praising those financial services and gene-editing changes.
 
domalino said:


so here we have the most pro Brexit person possible detailing the benefits for the rest of us that can’t remember them all.

I know The VAT one is a lie for starters. Not sure about the rest
Click to expand...

Fishing is a joke. Part of my family based in Cornwall say B has brought nothing but grief in the form of extra costs and paperwork, reductions in UK fishing limits and loosened controls for European fleets. That’s VAT and fishing rubbished and I doubt immigration is one to crow about. Any more?
 
domalino said:


so here we have the most pro Brexit person possible detailing the benefits for the rest of us that can’t remember them all.

I know The VAT one is a lie for starters. Not sure about the rest
Click to expand...


The odd thing with that is look at the map for the leave voters. It’s hardly a ringing endorsement of what he negotiated.
 
meltonblue said:
The odd thing with that is look at the map for the leave voters. It’s hardly a ringing endorsement of what he negotiated.
Click to expand...
Top 20 from 2016 Leave Voters Survey Results:
  1. Freedom
  2. Independence
  3. Shambles
  4. Disaster
  5. EU
  6. European
  7. Union
  8. UK
  9. Leaving
  10. Confusing
  11. Chaos
  12. Unfinished
  13. Mistake
  14. Mess
  15. Control
  16. Brilliant
  17. Laws
  18. Messy
  19. Frustrating
  20. Complicated
I have colour-coded for Good (5), Bad (9), and Neutral (6) responses.

There are quanitatively more Bad than Good responses, ignoring the Neutral responses.

If we weight them by rank (points equal to numerical rank), total the points for each category, divide by the number of responses in each category, then order them from lowest total (highest weight) to highest total (lowest weight), it looks like this:

Good (8.60 - 28.47%)
Neutral (9.16 - 30.33%)
Bad (12.44 - 41.19%)

By percentage of total weighted points (roughly reflective of the proportion of qualitative value of responses), Bad is actually the largest response category. Good is the highest weighted, but not by much.

How long before Bad overtakes Good in these surveys?
 
SebastianBlue said:
Top 20 from 2016 Leave Voters Survey Results:
  1. Freedom
  2. Independence
  3. Shambles
  4. Disaster
  5. EU
  6. European
  7. Union
  8. UK
  9. Leaving
  10. Confusing
  11. Chaos
  12. Unfinished
  13. Mistake
  14. Mess
  15. Control
  16. Brilliant
  17. Laws
  18. Messy
  19. Frustrating
  20. Complicated
I have colour-coded for Good (5), Bad (9), and Neutral (6) responses.

There are quanitatively more Bad than Good responses, ignoring the Neutral responses.

If we weight them by rank (points equal to numerical rank), total the points for each category, divide by the number of responses in each category, then order them from lowest total (highest weight) to highest total (lowest weight), it looks like this:

Good (8.60 - 28.47%)
Neutral (9.16 - 30.33%)
Bad (12.44 - 41.19%)

By percentage of total weighted points (roughly reflective of the proportion of qualitative value of responses), Bad is actually the largest response category. Good is the highest weighted, but not by much.

How long before Bad overtakes Good in these surveys?
Click to expand...

All the positive things are so abstract. Ask them what Freedom or Independence, control etc means and they likely won't be able to tell you.
 
domalino said:
All the positive things are so abstract. Ask them what Freedom or Independence, control etc means and they likely won't be able to tell you.
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Yep. The Bad responses are all fairly direct and concrete, the Neutral have little to no prescriptive value, and the Good are akin to Leave campaign bumper sticker fair.
 
I think part of the problem is there are two types of people. Some put a high value on abstract concepts. Others are more practical.

I take the view that what puts food on the table is more important than the colour of the passport or the theoretical powers of the UK Parliament. Especially as our democracy, so-called, is pretty much a sham, where a minority can elect a dictatorial majority.
 
BrianW said:
I think part of the problem is there are two types of people. Some put a high value on abstract concepts. Others are more practical.

I take the view that what puts food on the table is more important than the colour of the passport or the theoretical powers of the UK Parliament. Especially as our democracy, so-called, is pretty much a sham, where a minority can elect a dictatorial majority.
Click to expand...
Exactly. No democracy with the first past the post system. PR is not perfect but is fair even if it gives a voice to the nutters.
 
El_george said:
I will be in my eighties.
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So when you’re sat watching Bargain Hunt with the other octogenarians in the care home TV lounge you think you’ll be proven correct about leaving the EU in 2020 or will even remember much about it never mind having the insight to understand what state the country would have been in if we hadn’t left.
 
Always love when people such as Rees-Mogg thump the free-market tub. They couldn’t get one with Anglo-Saxon America but somehow expect India will be amenable and China, too. The same India that was pillaged by the British for perhaps as much as $45 trillion and the same China that still hasn’t forgiven the Opium Wars. Best of British in those negotiations…
 
west didsblue said:
So when you’re sat watching Bargain Hunt with the other octogenarians in the care home TV lounge you think you’ll be proven correct about leaving the EU in 2020 or will even remember much about it never mind having the insight to understand what state the country would have been in if we hadn’t left.
Click to expand...

*cough*

rqxpFeU.png
 
domalino said:


so here we have the most pro Brexit person possible detailing the benefits for the rest of us that can’t remember them all.

I know The VAT one is a lie for starters. Not sure about the rest
Click to expand...

Farmers at least - after 7 years - have a bit of an idea what the environmental improvements are that will replace the CAP grants. Losing 10% of farmland from food production to growing trees, coupled with the labour problems, just means more imports at higher costs.

The new Subsidy Control Act has increased the bureaucracy for local councils wanting to give grants to various local bodies.

Increased UK fishing in our own waters? But stopped UK fishing in EU waters, and we can't now sell a lot of the UK waters fish into the EU...

Introduced a new immigration system, which has given us even more immigration...

We had freeports before; the Tories scrapped them

We could scrap the VAT on domestic fuel - Leave said we would do that, but we haven't

Why couldn't we be a centre for gene editing before? (If it's true, is that because it's a bad idea?)

The man's a fool or - more likely - just still lying.
 
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