Shamima Begum

[Bluemanc100]

I dont think they can fix her , based on all her interviews over the years and who loses five babies , something badly wrong with her

Agreed... That's why I don't get the furor about her being unfairly treated...

 

[PragueBlue]

And neither do you. What’s wrong with locking her up in this country if she’s such a threat?

What's wrong with her standing trial in Syria first? If she's found not guilty there, then she returns to stand trial in the UK. If she's found guilty, then she sees out her sentence there before being tried in the UK upon her release.

I read somewhere that her Syrian trial is scheduled for Sept/Oct.

 

[west didsblue]

What's wrong with her standing trial in Syria first? If she's found not guilty there, then she returns to stand trial in the UK. If she's found guilty, then she sees out her sentence there before being tried in the UK upon her release.

I read somewhere that her Syrian trial is scheduled for Sept/Oct.

No problem with that if due process is applied.

The problem I have is the government pretending she’s not ultimately our responsibility by revoking her citizenship and expecting somewhere else to pick it up.

 

[Bluemanc100]

And neither do you. What’s wrong with locking her up in this country if she’s such a threat?

Because she‘ll be released at some point and quite possibly radicalise others whilst she is incarcerated

 

[west didsblue]

Because she‘ll be released at some point and quite possibly radicalise others whilst she is incarcerated

Back to the bogeyman argument. I’ll leave you to it.

 

[aguero93:20]

It’s a website where you can search for stuff.

Silly idea, can't see it ever taking off.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Back to the bogeyman argument. I’ll leave you to it.

This bogeyman?

During an interview, Ms Begum was asked if she knew about the beheadings and executions carried out by the Islamic State.

She responded: “Yeah, I knew about those things and I was okay with it. Because, you know, I started becoming religious just before I left.

“From what I heard, Islamically that is all allowed. So I was okay with it.”

In an interview with The Times earlier this month, Ms Begum had spoken of seeing “beheaded heads” in bins, but admitted it “did not faze her.”

Sounds completely fucking normal to me, get her a council house in Oldham....

Or is the above made up bullshit to tar the girl's reputation?

 

[west didsblue]

This bogeyman?

During an interview, Ms Begum was asked if she knew about the beheadings and executions carried out by the Islamic State.

She responded: “Yeah, I knew about those things and I was okay with it. Because, you know, I started becoming religious just before I left.

“From what I heard, Islamically that is all allowed. So I was okay with it.”

In an interview with The Times earlier this month, Ms Begum had spoken of seeing “beheaded heads” in bins, but admitted it “did not faze her.”

Sounds completely fucking normal to me, get her a council house in Oldham....

Or is the above made up bullshit to tar the girl's reputation?

Ok, so get her locked up here.

What could happen is the Syrians deport her and she makes her way across Europe and gets herself smuggled into the UK.

Isn’t it better that we know where she is and is under the control of the authorities?

As I’ve repeated on numerous occasions the discussion shouldn’t be about her specifically but about our country’s responsibility for dealing with British citizens in whatever way is most appropriate for the safety of the UK population. And that is not by fobbing her off to someone else to deal with who might just let her do whatever the fuck she wants.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Ok, so get her locked up here.

What could happen is the Syrians deport her and she makes her way across Europe and gets herself smuggled into the UK.

Isn’t it better that we know where she is and is under the control of the authorities?

As I’ve repeated on numerous occasions the discussion shouldn’t be about her specifically but about our country’s responsibility for dealing with British citizens in whatever way is most appropriate for the safety of the UK population. And that is not by fobbing her off to someone else to deal with who might just let her do whatever the fuck she wants.

it boils my piss that we’re even talking about her… the money she’s cost us as a nation to date could be much better spent elsewhere. All because she decided to go (voluntarily) to Club 18-30 ISIS Branch

 

[west didsblue]

it boils my piss that we’re even talking about her… the money she’s cost us as a nation to date could be much better spent elsewhere. All because she decided to go (voluntarily) to Club 18-30 ISIS Branch

We’re talking about her because the government have decided that the way to deal with her is to ignore our international obligations rather than doing what’s best for the safety of the UK, and it’s clearly being done for political reasons not because it’s the right thing to do.

Anyway, enough of this shit. Time for football.

 

[blueinsa]

Let her rot!

One big issue with the bring her home to face justice brigade is many dont want that, they will then turn it into a justice for Shamima campaign and knowing our system at present, she gets less fucking time than a house burglar.

Let her rot where she is.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Let her rot!

One big issue with the bring her home to face justice brigade is many dont want that, they will then turn it into a justice for Shamima campaign and knowing our system at present, she gets less fucking time than a house burglar.

Let her rot where she is.

What a daft thing to say. Terrorism offences are not leniently punished in the UK.

Maximum sentence is 10 years just for membership of a proscribed group. If the allegations about being involved in bomb making etc were proven she would be locked up much longer.

Which proves it isn't really about Begum it's just a "political correctness gone mad" or "bleeding-heart liberals" rant and not based in reality.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

15 yr old groomed online, trafficked, abused, married (at 15) therefore raped and lost three infant children. No actual evidence she was involved in any criminal activity (as a minor) yet she loses citizenship and can't return. Gary glitter meanwhile has raped multiple kids and returns to the UK.
Pure political grandstanding by the govt/home secretary, although I'll caveat that by saying the security services may have further concerns which are not public I suppose. If she was white and called Wendy she'd be back home imho. This is just about setting an example. If it serves to deter others and keep me and my country safe then fair enough, but morally it is totally wrong.

 

[west didsblue]

Let her rot!

One big issue with the bring her home to face justice brigade is many dont want that, they will then turn it into a justice for Shamima campaign and knowing our system at present, she gets less fucking time than a house burglar.

Let her rot where she is.

Another one spectacularly missing the point.

 

[blueinsa]

Another one spectacularly missing the point.

I don’t believe I am.

Sadly I have no faith in our justice system to deal with her and I’d expect the usual industry going into overdrive trying to get her acquitted.

It’s not something we need to be doing. She left of her own free will, has expressed no real remorse, offered insight into her sick mind and reasoning behind what she thought of ISIS and it’s crimes and only now is she uttering through gritted teeth, just enough to get her what she wants and that’s a free shot at a Justice system she thinks she has a chance of gaming.

No.

 

[west didsblue]

I don’t believe I am.

Sadly I have no faith in our justice system to deal with her and I’d expect the usual industry going into overdrive trying to get her acquitted.

It’s not something we need to be doing. She left of her own free will, has expressed no real remorse, offered insight into her sick mind and reasoning behind what she thought of ISIS and it’s crimes and only now is she uttering through gritted teeth, just enough to get her what she wants and that’s a free shot at a Justice system she thinks she has a chance of gaming.

No.

You’re totally missing my point.

If she really was a dual National I’d have absolutely no problem with the government doing what they did but they have set a dangerous precedent by saying they can strip anyone of their citizenship if they are even vaguely eligible to apply for citizenship elsewhere, and that’s at the whim of the Home Secretary with no recourse to appeal. So in theory a sizeable proportion of the population including myself are eligible for having their citizenship revoked without due process should the Home Secretary think it’s a good idea. That would be bad enough with any Home Secretary but the current one is Braverman FFS. If you can’t see a problem with that you’re not paying attention.

Having no faith in the English justice system is not a good reason to accept the Home Secretary having the power to remove my citizenship and break international law.

 

[better dead than red]

I don’t believe I am.

Sadly I have no faith in our justice system to deal with her and I’d expect the usual industry going into overdrive trying to get her acquitted.

It’s not something we need to be doing. She left of her own free will, has expressed no real remorse, offered insight into her sick mind and reasoning behind what she thought of ISIS and it’s crimes and only now is she uttering through gritted teeth, just enough to get her what she wants and that’s a free shot at a Justice system she thinks she has a chance of gaming.

No.

There is truth in what you say as far as the justice system. Our "enemies",those who hate the lifestyle of Western countries, be they foreign or domestic use our fair justice systems against us when it suits their needs. Whether that be during an attack planing phase or to "come home" once they realise it is in their best interests.

As an aside, I have a good friend who used to work in counter terrorism. He told me something one time (nothing secret FYI) and it seems to ring true very often. It's always 2nd generation Britons or Americans, etc who think going to become terrorists or "fighters" or what have you is a good idea. The kids of well meaning immigrants for whatever reason fall for it easily. Their parents want nothing to do with it. However, many become disillusioned when they discover there is no McDonald's, no Playstation, etc and want to come "home".

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

There is truth in what you say as far as the justice system. Our "enemies",those who hate the lifestyle of Western countries, be they foreign or domestic use our fair justice systems against us when it suits their needs. Whether that be during an attack planing phase or to "come home" once they realise it is in their best interests.

As an aside, I have a good friend who used to work in counter terrorism. He told me something one time (nothing secret FYI) and it seems to ring true very often. It's always 2nd generation Britons or Americans, etc who think going to become terrorists or "fighters" or what have you is a good idea. The kids of well meaning immigrants for whatever reason fall for it easily. Their parents want nothing to do with it. However, many become disillusioned when they discover there is no McDonald's, no Playstation, etc and want to come "home".

Usual teenage search for identity. There was a study (sorry can't remember the details to cite properly) done in the midlands in 2006 that found loads of young Muslim men spouting all the death to the west stuff and dressing like Mujahedeen. Nothing came of it - no different to young black men bollocking on about guns and bitches or white lads turning into Ali G until they find themselves. Kids being kids, although admittedly begum went further due to online grooming.

 

[Stephen Ireland's pants]

You’re totally missing my point.

If she really was a dual National I’d have absolutely no problem with the government doing what they did but they have set a dangerous precedent by saying they can strip anyone of their citizenship if they are even vaguely eligible to apply for citizenship elsewhere, and that’s at the whim of the Home Secretary with no recourse to appeal. So in theory a sizeable proportion of the population including myself are eligible for having their citizenship revoked without due process should the Home Secretary think it’s a good idea. That would be bad enough with any Home Secretary but the current one is Braverman FFS. If you can’t see a problem with that you’re not paying attention.

Having no faith in the English justice system is not a good reason to give the Home Secretary the power to remove my citizenship and break international law.

Only if you start hanging out with terrorists and saying you don't have a issue with people's heads getting lobbed off . If you don't do any of the above then you should be OK. Probably a good idea to stay away from Syria also .

 

[SWP's back]

15 yr old groomed online, trafficked, abused, married (at 15) therefore raped and lost three infant children. No actual evidence she was involved in any criminal activity (as a minor) yet she loses citizenship and can't return. Gary glitter meanwhile has raped multiple kids and returns to the UK.
Pure political grandstanding by the govt/home secretary, although I'll caveat that by saying the security services may have further concerns which are not public I suppose. If she was white and called Wendy she'd be back home imho. This is just about setting an example. If it serves to deter others and keep me and my country safe then fair enough, but morally it is totally wrong.

Small note but married in Syria at 15. Legal age of consent in Syria is 15 so no statutory rape. You can’t force British laws on to other jurisdictions in the same way we don’t lock people up in the U.K. for buying weed when they’re in Amsterdam. Another example would be like Americans saying a 17 year old was (statutory) raped in the U.K. if they had consensual sex there as it’s below their age of consent.