PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[dario2739]

The only way I see it ending soon is a major climb down by the PL with us maybe accepting the non-cooperation charges and taking a relatively minor pinch on that.

Are you sensing the PL don’t have the appetite for the fight they picked?

I don't want us to 'accept' anything – I want us to nail the fuckers to the wall!

 

[paska]

Maybe but I don’t go along with CAS not being independent. I think they were all unbiased yet one guy thought we had done something wrong.

If he was chosen by UEFA, by definition that’s not true though, is it?

By definition that member was not independent, could not be independent. He was UEFA’s man, literally so.

 

[paska]

I think the UEFA nominee was almost obliged to champion their case - given each party could nominate one of the panel members of their choice. I’m fairly sure I’ve read unanimous decisions don’t really happen at CAS. The PL panel is different in that the members are selected by the chairman (Rosen ?) who is an eminent Kings Counsel and will behave with absolute integrity.

Boris Johnson is also a King’s Council. As are Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Cameron, Tony Bliar, Keir Starmer…

 

[cheekybids]

And the chances of proving that they "gained points" by accessing our scouting database would be how low? It took place for 8 months at the start of the 2012/13 season, their finishing positions for that season and the next 3 was 7th, 2nd, 6th & 8th so you'd struggle to say it helped much.

I'd guess City would have been asked their opinion when the FA became aware of it (presuming they weren't already). It would seem that they were happy to put it to bed so the FA wouldn't have pushed it any further (perhaps, we'll never know what went on behind closed doors). Maybe we could have been in trouble for allowing it to go on so long with no one any the wiser?

The positive aspect of it BTW was that we accelerated our signing of Fernandinho so it worked out well in the end.

And that takes us back to how do
Investigations start. They don’t unless pressured by the Red cartel.

 

[dickie davies]

Yeah, or The FA receive information through other means. Contrast and compare Liverpool hacking incident in 2013.

"The FA has carefully considered the evidence it received in this matter, including information provided by both clubs involved, and has decided not to progress the investigation. This is due to a number of factors including the age of the alleged concerns."

I've no idea how the FA rules compare to the PL's but one of the factors considered would be the fact that we accepted a one off payment of a million quid. There is no comparison

If a criminal investigation had taken place about liverpool accessing City's database, City would have also been prosecuted for not adequately protecting sensitive personal data that had been trusted to it

 

[Rory Bluelow]

Boris Johnson is also a King’s Council. As are Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Cameron, Tony Bliar, Keir Starmer…

And they all support Altrincham apparently !

 

[cheekybids]

If a criminal investigation had taken place about liverpool accessing City's database, City would have also been prosecuted for not adequately protecting sensitive personal data that had been trusted to it

how come we & every other club haven’t been charged for our emails being hacked?

 

[dickie davies]

how come we & every other club haven’t been charged for our emails being hacked?

Because City hasn't reported a crime and as far as I know, no one has reported City for losing their personal data

 

[cheekybids]

Because City hasn't reported a crime and as far as I know, no one has reported City for losing their e personal data

There is a bloke in jail for the crime. I believe like with the scouting database, the only chance of a prosecution for City is if it was the customers details I.e our personal data including DOB, credit card not “ no left foot & doesn’t track back “.

 

[Chris in London]

I don't want us to 'accept' anything – I want us to nail the fuckers to the wall!

So do I but we are bang to rights on non-cooperation

 

[Chris in London]

Boris Johnson is also a King’s Council. As are Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Cameron, Tony Bliar, Keir Starmer…

No he isn’t. Neither are Truss, Patel, Rees Mogg, cameron or Blair.

starmer is, mind

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Boris Johnson is also a King’s Council. As are Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Cameron, Tony Bliar, Keir Starmer…

I think you're mixing up Privy Council (all of the above) and King's Counsel (top level lawyer, usually barrister)

Starmer is KC. The rest arem't.
They are all PC.

 

[meltonblue]

The one thing that keeps niggling at me is that we won CAS 2-1 and not 3-0.

It makes me think that there is a chance the PL appeal panel could see it the same way the losing CAS guy did…whatever the hell that was.

There’s a few things about the CAS verdict that still niggle at me tbh. Burden of proof though, I’m not sure what the PL have that makes them think they have a stronger case.

 

[paska]

I think you're mixing up Privy Council (all of the above) and King's Counsel (top level lawyer, usually barrister)

Starmer is KC. The rest arem't.
They are all PC.

Ah yes, you’re right I did make that mistake.

Even still, Starmer a good example of both offices not being wholly infallible.

 

[paska]

So do I but we are bang to rights on non-cooperation

Well, the club claims otherwise, and publicly neither side has proven either way, so it depends who you believe.

According to the club, we sent them everything they asked for, practically bent over backwards whilst their goons snooped through our private and often sensitive documents

 

[paska]

What do you want?

If you want to inhabit a world where only things that have been explicitly stated by the club in a public statement are "factual statements" then you should probably just leave this thread and come back in 18 months when there's a verdict, because the only factual statement so far is the PL and City statements from last monday. The other 14,450 posts in this comment are opinion and discourse.

In the meantime, the rest of us are probably going to keep discussing the possibilities using what we have in the public domain and trying to figure out what the club is fighting.

What we know is that City's internal documents involve putting 4 random companies between ADUG and Fordham, 4 companies who do nothing, have no business plan, and involve routing things through the BVI.

Feel free to offer another theory why the corporate structure was like that if you don't think that's someone disguising it. Or don't, because it won't be a fact.

Another reason could be the lower tax paid in the BVI

 

[moh]

What do you want?

If you want to inhabit a world where only things that have been explicitly stated by the club in a public statement are "factual statements" then you should probably just leave this thread and come back in 18 months when there's a verdict, because the only factual statement so far is the PL and City statements from last monday. The other 14,450 posts in this comment are opinion and discourse.

In the meantime, the rest of us are probably going to keep discussing the possibilities using what we have in the public domain and trying to figure out what the club is fighting.

What we know is that City's internal documents involve putting 4 random companies between ADUG and Fordham, 4 companies who do nothing, have no business plan, and involve routing things through the BVI.

Feel free to offer another theory why the corporate structure was like that if you don't think that's someone disguising it. Or don't, because it won't be a fact.

Speaking from experience most big multinational organisations are structured in an odd way on paper

I worked for one of the ten biggest organisations in the world and we had an entire team of people looking after things like this. Even taking advantage of currency fluctuations within the cash in the group of companies because of this kind of organisational design. It doesn’t necessarily point to wrongdoing.

 

[SilverFox2]

And that takes us back to how do
Investigations start. They don’t unless pressured by the Red cartel.

I don't disagree but surely part of the skip full of evidence we have provided will document our many requests for fairness in applying rules both on and on the field of play?
Surely then the panel will be forced to assess that point amongst many others by our legal team?

 

[cheekybids]

I don't disagree but surely part of the skip full of evidence we have provided will document our many requests for fairness in applying rules both on and on the field of play?
Surely then the panel will be forced to assess that point amongst many others by our legal team?

I think it’s clear that the process hasn’t been fair, shouldn’t be too hard to prove.

 

[terraloon]

I think the UEFA nominee was almost obliged to champion their case - given each party could nominate one of the panel members of their choice. I’m fairly sure I’ve read unanimous decisions don’t really happen at CAS. The PL panel is different in that the members are selected by the chairman (Rosen ?) who is an eminent Kings Counsel and will behave with absolute integrity.

You are probably right as to how the UEFA nominee how the City nominee voted but we simply don’t know but on that basis what in effect is being said is CAS outcomes are decided on one persons views

The PL panel will be as close to independent as is possible and I like everyone that is expressing an opinion has absolutely no idea as to the strength of the PLs case nor is it remotely possible to second guess how the panel will reach the point on the balance of probability but and here’s something that I hadn’t thought about till it was mentioned yesterday everyone attending, and probably giving evidence, will have English as their first language and will be experienced in and mainly trained in English law as opposed to Swiss .

Put all that together and, well I am back where I started !