The Scottish Politics thread

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blueinsa said:
45 Labour MP’s has far more chance of disposing Tory rule than 45 SNP MP’s.

Vote Labour, get Tory has to be one of the worst election slogans ever, especially when vote SNP, get Tory rings even more true when it comes to the National picture.

The nation should get behind Starmer if for no other reason than to kill the Tories for the next 10-15 years at least and then see where it leads.

Meanwhile Scotland can vote SNP to its heart content in Holyrood elections.
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The slogan in Scotland should be "dum, de de dum tish"

Vote any fucker you like and get Tories.

Its a vote winner.
 
The perfect fumble said:
I don't post much in here these days, but I could've sworn you were a Tory last time I looked.
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Only time was brexit and my total disdain for Corbyn and co.

Brexit was a fucking disaster and a mistake I will never get over if I’m being honest but I’m happy with my loathing of Corbyn and co.
 
It seems the indy mvt even within the SNP is quietly dying with even many among their own ranks saying it's time to concentrate on governing and to revisit independence at a later date. The swift quiet exit of blackford and sturgeon and now this change of tone are a bit of a surprise - Sunak and particularly Starmer must be delighted.
Someone must have a lot of shit on the previously vocal independence crowd.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
It seems the indy mvt even within the SNP is quietly dying with even many among their own ranks saying it's time to concentrate on governing and to revisit independence at a later date. The swift quiet exit of blackford and sturgeon and now this change of tone are a bit of a surprise - Sunak and particularly Starmer must be delighted.
Someone must have a lot of shit on the previously vocal independence crowd.
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More a realisation it won’t happen soon. Id accept a federal Scotland but still part of UK. We need more of a say on our own direction, Brexit was a watershed moment.

At the end of the day, the SNP are for many a means to an end. If Indy happened overnight the SNP would be just another party.
 
BobbyJohnstone said:
More a realisation it won’t happen soon. Id accept a federal Scotland but still part of UK. We need more of a say on our own direction, Brexit was a watershed moment.

At the end of the day, the SNP are for many a means to an end. If Indy happened overnight the SNP would be just another party.
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Think independence could be killed off quite easilly by a federal UK and allowing Scotland, and Wales if they wanted the same access to the EU as N. Ireland. However I don't see either Labour or Tories agreeing to that so independence will remain the only course. I just can't se a road to a referendum until at least after the next parliament and think maybe a fair few SNP members think the same.
 
blueparrot said:
Think independence could be killed off quite easilly by a federal UK and allowing Scotland, and Wales if they wanted the same access to the EU as N. Ireland. However I don't see either Labour or Tories agreeing to that so independence will remain the only course. I just can't se a road to a referendum until at least after the next parliament and think maybe a fair few SNP members think the same.
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Nail on head. Fwiw I was once an SNP member. Even did leafleting for them, was active. I now vote Green. I abandoned nationalism a long time ago. Most folk, like me, who want independence do so from wanting a fairer society and more of a say in our own direction. Unfortunately the media paint independence voters as anti English, this isn’t the case. I know a fair few English folk in Scotland who vote SNP. I also think the English need to have more of a say on their own future, what’s good for London isn’t exactly good for Teesside for example.
 
blueparrot said:
Think independence could be killed off quite easilly by a federal UK and allowing Scotland, and Wales if they wanted the same access to the EU as N. Ireland. However I don't see either Labour or Tories agreeing to that so independence will remain the only course. I just can't se a road to a referendum until at least after the next parliament and think maybe a fair few SNP members think the same.
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Given the Tory and Labour current stance on Brexit there is no way they would want that to happen. NI benefits from still being in the single market but you have to get on a plane or a boat to witness it for yourself. I can't imagine either of our two main parties would want people from Chester or Berwick upon Tweed being a short drive away from a land border which when crossed would show the damage Brexit was doing back in their homeland
 
bluethrunthru said:
Given the Tory and Labour current stance on Brexit there is no way they would want that to happen. NI benefits from still being in the single market but you have to get on a plane or a boat to witness it for yourself. I can't imagine either of our two main parties would want people from Chester or Berwick upon Tweed being a short drive away from a land border which when crossed would show the damage Brexit was doing back in their homeland
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I'm certain you're right I'm sure neither the current Labour and Tory parties would want to allow it, which is why the independece support won't go away. I was just posting that if the Westminster government was brave enough or imaginative enough it could kill off a lot of that support, no expectation they will.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
It seems the indy mvt even within the SNP is quietly dying with even many among their own ranks saying it's time to concentrate on governing and to revisit independence at a later date. The swift quiet exit of blackford and sturgeon and now this change of tone are a bit of a surprise - Sunak and particularly Starmer must be delighted.
Someone must have a lot of shit on the previously vocal independence crowd.
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Bit of a stretch there, but agree with the general observation.

There will always be a vocal independence crowd in the snp. The new ones will just buy their time till the fallout settles. For all the perceived vocals, Nicola herself went a fair while without pushing it. Granted, there was covid and a post brexit shitshow to deal with, but even when she did bang that drum, I felt and said she knew it was going nowhere. It was easy, because she knew the tory gov would always resist it, and then that could feed the narrative further. She has though reached a point where it has been pushed as far as it can be.

I expect it to ramp up again, and whoever leads it will return to the constitutional arguement.

Whether however there is or will be enough of an appetite, is the real question. But even if there isn't, the issue will never be fully sidelined, as it is a big proportion of votes.
 
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Saddleworth2 said:
Not even smart enough to do that. Rural affairs? No wonder she told him to do one. Lucky if he lasts 6 months.
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Yep, as predicted, this guy doesn’t even have the brains to portray a sense of unity or loyalty and has pissed many off with his actions today.

He simply isn’t good enough and he won’t last.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
It seems the indy mvt even within the SNP is quietly dying with even many among their own ranks saying it's time to concentrate on governing and to revisit independence at a later date. The swift quiet exit of blackford and sturgeon and now this change of tone are a bit of a surprise - Sunak and particularly Starmer must be delighted.
Someone must have a lot of shit on the previously vocal independence crowd.
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You are conflating the SNP with independence. If the SNP fail then watch another head grow on the hydra. That is why Useless Yousaf will fail. He is as likely to deliver independence as I am. In fact I am pretty sure I would deliver a more competent effort than he will.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
At a stroke piss off 48% of SNP membership on your first day. Takes some beating in the stupid stakes.
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Wasn’t that what she was doing though when she listed the jobs she wouldn’t give him if she won. Think she burnt her bridges then in that debate. Unfortunate because they should have campaigned so they could work together after the debates.They didn’t so they are where they are. Its no great surprise.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Not even smart enough to do that. Rural affairs? No wonder she told him to do one. Lucky if he lasts 6 months.
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She campaigned hardest to the rural communities, where she saw a core of traditionalist supporters, being a Highland lass. So can't maybe be too upset, nor can many of those that supported her. However it totally feels petty of him, and not where should be starting if he wants to stop the fracturing.
 
Bournemouth Blue said:
If the Scots want out, let it be. Personally Tony Blair‘s second worse move (first was the Iraq war) was to give the Scots and Welsh devolved powers. It would have been better if he had given England the same, but as it stands, we seem to have no voice.
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You should watch my Fintan O’Toole post in the Brexit thread. You may identify with much of it.
 
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