United (N) | FA Cup Final | Post-Match Thread

Dribble said:
I don't watch the Rags unless we play them mate, such is my utter hatred for them, so I can't comment on that one.

There will always be an element of interpretation. Handball is handball, however if the arm is down & the ball hit with power from short range, I've seen calls like that correctly ruled out because of the close proximity.

However, who determines what "close proximity" is & what a "power shot/pass" is? Again this is where interpretation & opinion come in.

Having said this, the arm being away from the body in an unnatural position is probably the closest we'll get to a resolution where there's more for this rule than against it.

But again as pointed out by Grealish, how's he supposed to jump & keep his arms down whilst trying to gain leverage?

It's unfair as Grealish evidently didn't intentionally intend to handle the ball, but I'll give you a scenario if you can be so kind as to give me your considered opinion...

So when keepers are faced with an onrushing player preparing to shoot, goalies are told to make themselves as big as possible to provide a block. I think on this one we can all agree.

Now as someone commented earlier, all handball's should be judged on intent, which is all about interpretation & opinion. But here's a scenario...

A defender (just like a keeper) makes himself big to block a chance which strikes his outstretched arm. He knows a cross or shot is coming, he makes himself big & turns to the side so he's not looking at the ball & the ball strikes his outstretched arm, blocking a cross or shot.

A. Is that handball?

B. Is it intentional?

C. Is it unintentional?
Click to expand...
It should be much simpler than that - did the team gain an advantage by the handball offence - the touch was so slight yesterday that there was no real advantage - now if it altered the course or trajectory of the ball then absolutely

My problem with yesterday is whenever there is a decision to be made United got the benefit on multiple occasions… exactly the same as at Old Trafford… that to me stinks and they should open the mics so we can hear what’s being said or put VAR in the bin

Again I think we’ve over complicated VAR - I’d much prefer it to be a flag to the refereee to take a second look and make his own opinion up on second viewing
 
Bluefen said:
It should be much simpler than that - did the team gain an advantage by the handball offence - the touch was so slight yesterday that there was no real advantage - now if it altered the course or trajectory of the ball then absolutely

My problem with yesterday is whenever there is a decision to be made United got the benefit on multiple occasions… exactly the same as at Old Trafford… that to me stinks and they should open the mics so we can hear what’s being said or put VAR in the bin

Again I think we’ve over complicated VAR - I’d much prefer it to be a flag to the refereee to take a second look and make his own opinion up on second viewing
Click to expand...
This is my whole point. Even asking this question none of us have given the same answer, which proves the interpretation & opinion conundrum. \0/

I'll thrown another spanner in the works if I may... Who judges if the flight & trajectory of the ball was affected & if an advantage was lost or gained?

Again this will be down to the interpretations & opinions of the side making the pass/cross/shot, the team trying to stop the pass/cross/shot, the referee & VAR officials.

As you've said which highlights the issue:

I’d much prefer it to be a flag to the refereee to take a second look and make his own opinion up on second viewing
Click to expand...

As you can see, herein lies the problem. One man's "opinion" on handball is another man's it should have gone this way, or that & "The ref's a corrupt twat with an agenda against us!", or "He's a decent ref for making the correct call (which I just happen to agree with)..."

How do we resolve this to cover EVERYONE'S opinion/interpretation? \0/
 
its a Barm said:
So I've only just noticed we played in the old shirt not the new one worn last week at Brentford, I heard it was going to be the new one, strange, glad we played in the old, hope we do next week.
Click to expand...
It is the old one next week as well they’ve already said for both finals
 
Dribble said:
I don't watch the Rags unless we play them mate, such is my utter hatred for them, so I can't comment on that one.

There will always be an element of interpretation. Handball is handball, however if the arm is down & the ball hit with power from short range, I've seen calls like that correctly ruled out because of the close proximity.

However, who determines what "close proximity" is & what a "power shot/pass" is? Again this is where interpretation & opinion come in.

Having said this, the arm being away from the body in an unnatural position is probably the closest we'll get to a resolution where there's more for this rule than against it.

But again as pointed out by Grealish, how's he supposed to jump & keep his arms down whilst trying to gain leverage?

It's unfair as Grealish evidently didn't intentionally intend to handle the ball, but I'll give you a scenario if you can be so kind as to give me your considered opinion...

So when keepers are faced with an onrushing player preparing to shoot, goalies are told to make themselves as big as possible to provide a block. I think on this one we can all agree.

Now as someone commented earlier, all handball's should be judged on intent, which is all about interpretation & opinion. But here's a scenario...

A defender (just like a keeper) makes himself big to block a chance which strikes his outstretched arm. He knows a cross or shot is coming, he makes himself big & turns to the side so he's not looking at the ball & the ball strikes his outstretched arm, blocking a cross or shot.

A. Is that handball?

B. Is it intentional?

C. Is it unintentional?
Click to expand...

You are describing John Terry. That is handball.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Same buddy,hence why i've only just turned on the lap top.....despite the win,i was fucking livid.

At HT i was ready to kill some ****,football should not get me like that.....but the game i have loved for near 50 years is being stolen by inept/corrupt and cheating pricks.

A fucking great result today,but some of the shine was definitely smudged as a result of their best efforts to fuck us over.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, it was a fucking disgrace
 
OB1 said:
You are describing John Terry. That is handball.
Click to expand...
So there goes the 'Was it intentional or not" out the window. The player made himself big, turned his head with there being a good chance the ball strikes his arm.

However, as per many opinions & interpretations expressed since yesterday, because Jack didn't intentionally handle the ball & wasn't even looking at it, it shouldn't be handball.

Do you have any solutions to offer?

I really can't think of one which is a one size fits all solution to suit everyone, hence the interpretation/opinion debates still raging on... I've zero idea how to overcome this...
 
Jesus H Gabz said:
Just watched the game back (bbc) we actually had more control than it felt like at the game, Gundo was majestic John Stones magnificent. No way should Fred have seen out the ninety, we may as well give teams a goal start as the officials only level things up anyway, the pen was a joke, they’re basically saying if it touches the hand it’s a pen, a bit like when they use to say well there was contact.
My overwhelming feeling of the day was one of pride, proud of the fans, who where outstanding, everywhere I looked there where 2 & sometimes 3 generations of blues standing shoulder to shoulder singing their hearts out, and from what I saw good all round behaviour. Proud of the performance, we showed character guts bravery & a will to win, despite being against XI players and the officials.
And I was so proud watching the players singing Na na na naa Ciiiiity on the Wembley balcony, that and Peps tears nearly got me….what a day!
Click to expand...
If you have ITV recorded too, it’s worth watching some of the post match stuff. Great bit they don’t show on BBC that I didn’t spot at the game where the players start the “Gundo’s on Fire” chant. Also, another lovely interview from Jack.
 
Chi-town blues said:
Honestly for me this was more important than next weekend.
Click to expand...
In any normal year, the Prem is the most important and the CL is the most prestigious (which has them level). But this year a first ever Manchester derby FA Cup final puts that at the same level as the other two.

Winning the Prem was the most important until we did it. Winning the FA Cup was the most important until we did it. The CL final is now the most important. And as a trio, they are all as important as each other as being part of a treble. Without any one of them, there’s no treble.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top