The English Championship is the strongest second tier in the World. Didn’t Beckham go to Preston for experience? They have to be tested somewhere. I’d argue that the ECL isn’t that much different, in average standard, to the Dutch top tier.My argument regarding Barcelona B is to show how Pep sees things, not me. And I wasn’t really talking about McAtee either.
But since you mentioned him, claiming that doing well in the Championship means he is tested to work at our level is insane. The level of the Championship is weak. Look what happened when the run away champions Burnley played us. Sheffield United had one tough game in their FA Cup campaign, against Tottenham, which they won 1-0 with their pants in their hands. Against us he couldn’t play— would have been good for experience.
Do we ever sign Championship players for our first team? Does any big 6 team for that matter?
And we should clarify that it took McAtee a few months to start playing well in the Championship too. It’s natural, not blaming him. Also, have heard from SU fans who like him a lot and wish he’d stay because they don’t think he’s even ready for our bench yet.
Saying all this is to temper expectations. Don’t be shocked if the outcome of our preseason is that he doesn’t stay beyond
Doyle was better by all accounts and there's no calls for him to break through?McAtee isn't unproven though, is he?
He was very good for a team who won promotion to the Premier League and reached an FA Cup semi-final.
The Championship is miles above the dross that Barcelona B play week in, week out.
So you're argument doesn't really stand up to any real scrutiny.
Ahhh, Gus, having said all that, I've missed your nonsense. Welcome back. ;-)
My argument regarding Barcelona B is to show how Pep sees things, not me. And I wasn’t really talking about McAtee either.
But since you mentioned him, claiming that doing well in the Championship means he is tested to work at our level is insane. The level of the Championship is weak. Look what happened when the run away champions Burnley played us. Sheffield United had one tough game in their FA Cup campaign, against Tottenham, which they won 1-0 with their pants in their hands. Against us he couldn’t play— would have been good for experience.
Do we ever sign Championship players for our first team? Does any big 6 team for that matter?
And we should clarify that it took McAtee a few months to start playing well in the Championship too. It’s natural, not blaming him. Also, have heard from SU fans who like him a lot and wish he’d stay because they don’t think he’s even ready for our bench yet.
Saying all this is to temper expectations. Don’t be shocked if the outcome of our preseason is that he doesn’t stay beyond
Right you know better than Pep and or coaches. I’m out.The coaches haven’t seen them against tough opposition either. I have seen more than a hundred players in my life that were supposed to make it after their Academy and just didn’t pull off the “jump”. It’s an uncertainty
Completely, pal.To put it in perspective. For arguments sake, let's say we have 30 players in the academy to choose from.
If each other top level team in Europe have the same number, that is approximately 100 other teams, so 3000 academy players. 1000s more if you look worldwide.
The odds that we produce the player needed with the specific skill set and ability level, and specific opening in the squad, is remote.
Academies are there for selling players to other teams who match the player, and vice-versa.
Sometimes, the pieces fall into place and lots of academy players get to progress at their academy club senior team, but mostly it's a player merry-go-round.
Getting academy players into the 1st team is the exception, NOT the rule.
Anyhoo, carry on with the "academy wishful thinking dream" if that floats yer boat...
I argued he would be slowly introduced to team and there would be a difference in playing for the Argentinian league. Then what happened was we sold Jesus and he was forced into a more significant role, but he still played significantly less than Haaland, who happens to be younger than him, but had more experience than him. I also could not have predicted that he would have played as important a role in the World Cup as he did, which also was an injection of experience and confidence. What will happen is exactly what I predicted: in his second season is when he will get more consistent time and have adapted betterDidn’t you spend months on here telling us we would all be underwhelmed with Alvarez and he was not at our level yet?
I argued he would be slowly introduced to team and there would be a difference in playing for the Argentinian league. Then what happened was we sold Jesus and he was forced into a more significant role, but he still played significantly less than Haaland, who happens to be younger than him, but had more experience than him. I also could not have predicted that he would have played as important a role in the World Cup as he did, which also was an injection of experience and confidence. What will happen is exactly what I predicted: in his second season is when he will get more consistent time and have adapted better
You are twisting my words to have a “clap back” moment. Cheap.Right you know better than Pep and or coaches. I’m out.
I do not remember myself ever saying he was average. I warned he was a good player within the context of South American football, which I know very well. I warned that because people here were setting very high expectations for him. Like I said, that was without knowing Jesus would be sold and he would have the WC he did.That’s not how I remember it. I just recall you saying he was pretty average and we would be underwhelmed.
I do not remember myself ever saying he was average. I warned he was a good player within the context of South American football, which I know very well. I warned that because people here were setting very high expectations for him. Like I said, that was without knowing Jesus would be sold and he would have the WC he did.
I know it’s easier to have the “he was wrong about Alvarez” card to throw at me every time, but if you want to be intellectually honest, things aren’t that simple
So what you are saying in a nutshell is that you were wrong. Also, he did not play ‘significantly less than Haaland. 49 appearances and 17 goals attest to that. How many times was Erling substituted early? Maybe quite close as regards actual minutes played.I argued he would be slowly introduced to team and there would be a difference in playing for the Argentinian league. Then what happened was we sold Jesus and he was forced into a more significant role, but he still played significantly less than Haaland, who happens to be younger than him, but had more experience than him. I also could not have predicted that he would have played as important a role in the World Cup as he did, which also was an injection of experience and confidence. What will happen is exactly what I predicted: in his second season is when he will get more consistent time and have adapted better
it's not a very good transfer window thusfar.This is a bloody strange thread.
I think you're missing the point. Nobody is arguing that McAtee, Palmer, Bobb etc. are going to come in and play 25 games a season and be pivotal players.My argument regarding Barcelona B is to show how Pep sees things, not me. And I wasn’t really talking about McAtee either.
But since you mentioned him, claiming that doing well in the Championship means he is tested to work at our level is insane. The level of the Championship is weak. Look what happened when the run away champions Burnley played us. Sheffield United had one tough game in their FA Cup campaign, against Tottenham, which they won 1-0 with their pants in their hands. Against us he couldn’t play— would have been good for experience.
Do we ever sign Championship players for our first team? Does any big 6 team for that matter?
And we should clarify that it took McAtee a few months to start playing well in the Championship too. It’s natural, not blaming him. Also, have heard from SU fans who like him a lot and wish he’d stay because they don’t think he’s even ready for our bench yet.
Saying all this is to temper expectations. Don’t be shocked if the outcome of our preseason is that he doesn’t stay beyond
Oh yes, I do admit he did better than I expected, but what I am saying is there were factors that contributed to that. Had Jesus stayed would it have been the same? He also did arrive with serious senior experience albeit in Argentina.So what you are saying in a nutshell is that you were wrong. Also, he did not play ‘significantly less than Haaland. 49 appearances and 17 goals attest to that.
He really wasn't. He simply adapted more quickly because of a) the role he was asked to play, b) he'd already had Championship experience.Doyle was better by all accounts and there's no calls for him to break through?
Not saying there isn't any potential or promise, but I think people need to calm down a bit with him.
Personally I'd prefer another loan for him, because the handful of appearances for us in the early rounds of the cup competitions won't do him as much good as a full season playing IMO.
I don’t think it ever gets to 4 or 5The argument has always been that we have 4 or 5 young
It isn’t our fans that rate Saka, it is the world of football that has him in high count, and for a reason. Saka has experience playing the Euros and the World Cup and was a pivotal player in making Arsenal have a PL season no one expected them to have.It fascinates me to see some of our 'fans' look at a player like Saka, and judge him as a world- beating, £100m genius, despite him winning fuck all of note and going missing against any half decent defender and then look at one of our own, such as McAtee, and dismiss him as nowhere near good enough to play 10-15 games for us.
We are nowhere near that point. Unless you consider a player in the current senior squad that would open a hole in another position. You can have whatever opinion of Mahrez you want, but he had a hard earned trust of Pep and concrete goal and tactical contributions. The manager we have will not trust that role to a green player. Maybe another would, but he won’tWe are reaching the point where replacing a 32- year-old Mahrez, who'd clearly lost interest by the end of the season, shouldn't necessitate an huge investment on a ready made player.
What Pep said was due to him being coached by Gallardo whom he rates and plays a similar style. I talked about this South American Player of the Year award at the time, it isn’t a particularly significant award looking at who’s won it in the past and where they are today.But Jesus was sold because we had agreed to sign Alvarez. Don’t particularly want to argue but the fact he was South American footballer of the Year counts for something. In my opinion I think he’s absolutely sensational and would be a first choice for me this year. Also, didn’t Pep say he would be eased in due to commitments in Argentina. Likely he played more than even Pep thought which indicates he is better than you predicted.
I love Mahrez, always will. He was incredibly underrated by far too many City fans. But he clearly didn't have Pep's trust for the vital games at the end of the season. And that, for me, is why it's the right time to let him go.I don’t think it ever gets to 4 or 5
It isn’t our fans that rate Saka, it is the world of football that has him in high count, and for a reason. Saka has experience playing the Euros and the World Cup and was a pivotal player in making Arsenal have a PL season no one expected them to have.
We are nowhere near that point. Unless you consider a player in the current senior squad that would open a hole in another position. You can have whatever opinion of Mahrez you want, but he had a hard earned trust of Pep and concrete goal and tactical contributions. The manager we have will not trust that role to a green player. Maybe another would, but he won’t