The PGMOL Apologies Thread

[bakerdave76]

Nothing to see here ..

 

[Revolver]

Fat lot of good an apology is for the Wolves fans

If an apology has been made then clearly the wrong decision was made. With VAR there should be no excuse.

The question is why wasn’t VAR used last night at Old Trafford to correct this wrong decision that could have seen the home team drop points ……

(Hardly an original insight by me!)

 

[yeah whatever !!]

But as I have said on many an occasion, there is nothing, absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop this going on. We can come on here and let a bit of steam off yeah, but it will not make a blind bit of difference. What it needs is for us, the supporters, to stand as one and say we've had our fill of that one club who are continuously being aided and assisted by the refereeing community in our Premier League. The rags.

It will take a hell of a lot of organising, and probably a lot of money too. Pgmol know this only too well, so they know they have nothing to fear. A handful of disenchanted fans whinging about refereeing decisions? They'll probably laugh over their cornflakes.

I'm sorry lads and lasses, but the way I see it is that it is going to get worse and worse. The longer they continue not being accountable to the paying public, and point-blankly refusing to open up and show a bit of transparency, the more we suffer.
All the tactics, all the manoeuvres from the training ground, all the hard work and preparation the players and managers go through, counts for fuck all if the officials don't want a team to win.

And we are paying for that particular privilege.

Mass walkout by fans would certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

[Gray]

Nothing to see here ..View attachment 90249

Was that before the game?

 

[manimanc]

It was bullshit.

I believe the source was his own daughter - and she read it on twitter.

I did think at the time but I gave the benefit of the doubt.

Ah well.

 

[Mr Fraser]

Sorry, I knew this would be a lengthy reply which is why I delayed making it.

And yes, having re-read your original post I probably did slightly misinterpret it.

There’s no doubt football ( not sure if it’s specifically the Premier League ) has a much looser interpretation of when a video official will intervene than most other sports. But I think the main reason for this is that football is unlike any other sport in the way that virtually all the laws of the game are so subjective and open to an individual interpretation.

Tennis is the polar opposite. Every line call is a matter of fact. It’s in or it’s out. A small child with minimal IT skills and zero knowledge of tennis could be on their VAR equivalent and you would never know.

Rugby League isn’t quite as black and white but the vast majority of calls involve the video referee deciding if the ball was fairly grounded or not. You get the odd controversy where the camera angles available aren’t conclusive. But then he just sticks with the on field decision.

I’m not a big basketball fan but from what I understand if you touch an opponent it’s pretty much always a foul.

I could on but the common theme in all other sports is that they are ruling on black and white decisions most of the time. Did something happen or didn’t it?

And then you get to football. What even is a foul in football? Try describing it in a few words. The law says:

———-

1. Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
charges
jumps at
kicks or attempts to kick
pushes
strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
tackles or challenges
trips or attempts to trip

Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed

Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned

Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off.

——

The most common reason for a run of the mill foul is the first one.

“When a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution.”

We’re all constantly crying out for consistency but how the fuck are two people supposed to work with that and consistently come to the same conclusions?

Which I why I think football has adopted the attitude that a VAR must be sure the referee has made a clear error. To avoid the often quoted “ re- referring of the game” when a VAR is simply deciding what decision he would have given, rather than if the original decision was incorrect by law.

A big area of contention is the lack of transparency. In cricket and both rugby codes the TV official broadcasts the whole review. Its not difficult.

 

[give it to gordon]

But as I have said on many an occasion, there is nothing, absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop this going on. We can come on here and let a bit of steam off yeah, but it will not make a blind bit of difference. What it needs is for us, the supporters, to stand as one and say we've had our fill of that one club who are continuously being aided and assisted by the refereeing community in our Premier League. The rags.

It will take a hell of a lot of organising, and probably a lot of money too. Pgmol know this only too well, so they know they have nothing to fear. A handful of disenchanted fans whinging about refereeing decisions? They'll probably laugh over their cornflakes.

I'm sorry lads and lasses, but the way I see it is that it is going to get worse and worse. The longer they continue not being accountable to the paying public, and point-blankly refusing to open up and show a bit of transparency, the more we suffer.
All the tactics, all the manoeuvres from the training ground, all the hard work and preparation the players and managers go through, counts for fuck all if the officials don't want a team to win.

And we are paying for that particular privilege.

I dont disagree but live in hope once the pl is independently run the pl will demand that ALL grounds have a large screen. Plus all refs and VAR conversions are public.

 

[Platt Lane 59]

I dont disagree but live in hope once the pl is independently run the pl will demand that ALL grounds have a large screen. Plus all refs and VAR conversions are public.

Cannot see ref & VAR conversations ever being made public ?
The language and vitriolic attitude of the players will harm the "Premier League Brand".
The abuse of the officials by players is a disgrace that I cannot see being stopped, as the managers are just as bad (who would be a 4th Official ?).
Both codes of Rugby have a tradition of sportsmanship that football, for the last 50-odd years, has never had.
I'm aware that Rugby players are not angels off the pitch, but generally the on pitch behaviour is far, far superior to football.
Cannot see Wigan RLFC or Sale RUFC debating whether one of their players (like Greenwood) should be playing for them again, after their threatening behaviour ?

 

[Stephen230]

A big area of contention is the lack of transparency. In cricket and both rugby codes the TV official broadcasts the whole review. Its not difficult.

It’s not difficult but it’s one thing you can’t blame on the Premier League.

FIFA forbid live broadcasting of ref/ Var comms.

Not that I’m convinced the Premier League would be rushing to implement it from day one if FIFA ever did allow it.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

It’s not difficult but it’s one thing you can’t blame on the Premier League.

FIFA forbid live broadcasting of ref/ Var comms.

Not that I’m convinced the Premier League would be rushing to implement it from day one if FIFA ever did allow it.

Well I suspect that both organisations do not want to be transparent , thus providing the opportunity to avoid exposing clearly nefarious/ corrupt decisions .

Not an act of good faith or integrity imo

 

[Stephen230]

Well I suspect that both organisations do not want to be transparent , thus providing the opportunity to avoid exposing clearly nefarious/ corrupt decisions .

Not an act of good faith or integrity imo

No, I do think it will inevitably come eventually though.

They’ve made the first tiny step with the refs announcing overturns. But they don’t like changing anything in a rush.

 

[flook]

I understand that was the given reason, but I do not believe that was the actual reason.

And I have not called for doing away with VAR.

Ah ok, never let the truth spoil a good conspiracy theory I say ;)

And I didn't suggest you had called for doing away with VAR

 

[SebastianBlue]

Ah ok, never let the truth spoil a good conspiracy theory I say ;)

And I didn't suggest you had called for doing away with VAR

The PL and PGMOL should never be associated with “truth”. ;-)

Also, there have been plenty of “improvements” that were spun as positives for fans, but in reality only served to make VAR an even more opaque system.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Last night's ref and VAR performance was either corrupt or inept. Either way Salisbury and Hooper shouldn't ref again in the PL. But wait Salisbury made a mistake on VAR last season. Just one game drop. No real punishment, just carry on as normal lads, this level of incompetence is acceptable is the message from Webb and Moss.

 

[hello]

The “clear and obvious error” threshold was solely devised to allow for continued manipulation via officiating, as it allows VAR to defer to the referee for any “subjective” decision (most of the decisions that are made), regardless of whether there was an “error” made, essentially allowing referees to continue to influence matches when it suits and provide following the LotG as cover for it.

In nearly every other sport using a version of video replay, the threshold is “was an error made”, whether or not it was clear or obvious.

In fact, the point of video replay is to catch the incidents that could not have been clear or obvious to the officials, so making that the threshold negates much of the utility of video replay.

At which point any reasonable person should ask themselves why the governing bodies would want to effectively substantially lower the utility of video replay (and why it is being used differently to most other sports).

Every other sport uses video replays in an open way so even if you disagree you’ve heard the logic and process in full.

 

[Andy TheCatalyst Morrison]

Well there’s only three possible reasons.

They’re right and I’m wrong.
They made a mistake.
They cheated.

I’d like to think the middle one was the case but who knows?

I simply fail to see how VAR watches that replay several times and decides no penalty. So it's C) for me

 

[Gray]

Last night's ref and VAR performance was either corrupt or inept. Either way Salisbury and Hooper shouldn't ref again in the PL. But wait Salisbury made a mistake on VAR last season. Just one game drop. No real punishment, just carry on as normal lads, this level of incompetence is acceptable is the message from Webb and Moss.

They are like the Masons, everything behind closed doors with funny handshakes and bared breasts.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Mass walkout by fans would certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Not walk outs but sit it's after the final whistle.

Easier to organise, no in- match disruption.

Select two dates so that everyone gets a home game & away game.

Publicise the bollocks off the dates for max national & International media exposure.

Get the BLACK FLAGS out..but remember this is against all the authorities AND the complicit rags !!

 

[Tecumseh]

Frankly, like the public sector, PGMOL enjoy the luxury that there is no effective sanction against poor performance . People who are crap or worse, clearly biased, should be fired, starting with Darren England.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

These refs who have been stood down next weekend... I bet they're on full pay.

Its basically a week off, out of the spotlight.