Middle East Conflict

[Postman Pep]

3 times we have asked the IDF to confirm but so far they haven't .... but fuck it lets run with it anyway

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Feel free to point out exactly where I’ve re-written history in any of my previous posts PB. Your version of historic events isn’t much different to mine, but something you will most likely consider a Palestinian perspective.

- From 1517 to 1917 Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire where Christians, Muslims and Jews lived in relative harmony for the most part
- In the late 1800’s/early 1900’s the Zionist movement was founded and led by Theodore Herzi with the plan of creating a Jewish homeland
- At this time the Jewish population of Palestine was around 8% and Arab nationalism was on the rise and many Palestinians wanted an independent state
- Imperial Britain knew of both the Palestinian and Zionist ambitions and used this to bolster their own interests
- In 1914 during world war 1, Britain went to war with the Ottomans
- In 1915 Henry McMohan went to the Arabs with a proposal to fight against the Ottomans in return for independence
- In 1917 The Balfour declaration was created after he wrote a letter to Walter Rothschild stating the British govt were in favour of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine and nothing would be done to prejudice the civil or religious rights of the existing population.
- This declaration was in stark contrast as to what the British and French armies had promised Iraq, Syria and Palestine in 1918
- So Britain had promised that independence to the Arabs in Palestine, while also promising the same inhabited land to the Jews
- When the Ottomans lost control in 1918, the League of Nations gave Britain a dual mandate of Palestine.
- On one hand they were to act on behalf of Palestinians and on the other to act on behalf of the international Jewish community who wanted to establish a homeland
- Britain drew up arbitrary borders and during this time Jewish folk from Europe began immigrating and buying up land
- The Jewish population rose from 60,000 to 600,000 by 1947
- Many Palestinians saw this mass influx as a European colonial movement and as expected this would lead to conflict
- In 1929 there were clashes at the wailing wall leading to a number of deaths on both sides
- In 1936 the clashes got worse as immigration increased
- During the riots at least 2000 Palestinians were killed by the British army
- A British commission concluded that because of the mass immigration the two groups couldn’t be reconciled and recommended a partition of the land
- The Arab higher commission rejected this and claimed all the land belonged to them. Britain in return banned them
- In 1939 the British proposed a bi-national state and limiting Jewish immigration for 5 years
- Immigration still continued on mass however (Yes we all know what happened in world war 2) as a result more violence erupted. After creating the mess in the first place by giving land promised to the inhabitants to another group of people Britain decided to hand over to the UN in 1948, whom decided to partition the land.
- Once the British army left, it emboldened the Zionist movement and the Arabs from neighbouring countries and from 1948 until today we have seen entire villages wiped out, Over 700,000 Palestinians expelled from their own land, countless state sponsored atrocities committed by the IDF, settlers free to brutalise Palestinians, apartheid imposed on the indigenous population and a slow and systematic ethnic cleansing unfold before our very eyes.

Not bad but some material misstatements in there.

First of all there was no "mass immigration". The largest number of Jewish immigrants was in 1935, with just over 60,000 arriving. The Arab revolt forced the British into significantly curbing immigration and in 1936, under half that number of Jews were allowed in. The following three years there were around 40,000 in total, which is an average of just over 13,000 a year. After 1939, immigration decreased yet again, from 18,433 in that year, but only 24,000 over the next four years.

That's hardly "mass immigration" so your picture of Jews pouring in by the boatload is completely false.

Here's the link to the numbers and you'll notice it's hardly a site that's sympathetic to the Jewish side. https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Books/Story835.html

Also there are significant ambiguities in what was promised to whom after WW1. There were a lot of cynical promises made to be sure but the British never promised "everything" to one side or the other, although the Arabs claimed they had.

But the worst falsehood is the one about the British Army's leaving "emboldening the Zionists". As another poster has pointed out, that is an utter pile of shite. The British certainly took a tough line against the Arabs during the revolt but it was the Arabs who attacked the newly formed Israel when the British withdrew. The "Zionists" were fighting for their very survival.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Feel sick for the children wrapped up in all this. Must be absolutely terrifying.

On either side, you’d think that the world will now take a look at what is happening in the region. Saying that, we are allowing the children of this country to suffer so I’m not too sure.

 

[i kne albert davy]

The Saudi government we sell weapons to?

Gosh that’s got a lot to do with this conflict, proper whaterboutery.

 

[Ducado]

Haven't the Israeli air force hit targets in Iran before? I'm sure they have, I was thinking something along those lines might be Israel's response to Iranian funding and training of hamas?

They bombed a reactor in Iraq years ago, but as far as I am aware they have never directly attacked Iran, they have assassinated a few Iranian Nuclear scientists (allegedly but it could have been the Americans)

 

[The blue phantom]

3 times we have asked the IDF to confirm but so far they haven't .... but fuck it lets run with it anyway

At least Sky have highlighted all this. Those front pages are as bad as some on here saying its fact.

 

[Vic]

Gosh that’s got a lot to do with this conflict, proper whaterboutery.

Just answering your question.

Anyway, the whole thread is whataboutery. What about this massacre? What about that terror attack? What about this village destroyed?

 

[daveoswald]

Not bad but some material misstatements in there.

First of all there was no "mass immigration". The largest number of Jewish immigrants was in 1935, with just over 60,000 arriving. The Arab revolt forced the British into significantly curbing immigration and in 1936, under half that number of Jews were allowed in. The following three years there were around 40,000 in total, which is an average of just over 13,000 a year. After 1939, immigration decreased yet again, from 18,433 in that year, but only 24,000 over the next four years.

That's hardly "mass immigration" so your picture of Jews pouring in by the boatload is completely false.

Here's the link to the numbers and you'll notice it's hardly a site that's sympathetic to the Jewish side. https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Books/Story835.html

Also there are significant ambiguities in what was promised to whom after WW1. There were a lot of cynical promises made to be sure but the British never promised "everything" to one side or the other, although the Arabs claimed they had.

But the worst falsehood is the one about the British Army's leaving "emboldening the Zionists". As another poster has pointed out, that is an utter pile of shite. The British certainly took a tough line against the Arabs during the revolt but it was the Arabs who attacked the newly formed Israel when the British withdrew. The "Zionists" were fighting for their very surviva

Not bad but some material misstatements in there.

First of all there was no "mass immigration". The largest number of Jewish immigrants was in 1935, with just over 60,000 arriving. The Arab revolt forced the British into significantly curbing immigration and in 1936, under half that number of Jews were allowed in. The following three years there were around 40,000 in total, which is an average of just over 13,000 a year. After 1939, immigration decreased yet again, from 18,433 in that year, but only 24,000 over the next four years.

That's hardly "mass immigration" so your picture of Jews pouring in by the boatload is completely false.

Here's the link to the numbers and you'll notice it's hardly a site that's sympathetic to the Jewish side. https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Books/Story835.html

Also there are significant ambiguities in what was promised to whom after WW1. There were a lot of cynical promises made to be sure but the British never promised "everything" to one side or the other, although the Arabs claimed they had.

But the worst falsehood is the one about the British Army's leaving "emboldening the Zionists". As another poster has pointed out, that is an utter pile of shite. The British certainly took a tough line against the Arabs during the revolt but it was the Arabs who attacked the newly formed Israel when the British withdrew. The "Zionists" were fighting for their very survival.

Don't give them the fact's, its akin to going on the City thread on rawk, feelings count more.

 

[hammocity]

There’s no thought on this for the people just trying to live as normal a life as possible. Just read the history on one post, it’s fuck all to do with what happened in the past, going back a long way, that’s just excuses.

I’m pretty sure most of tbe average population just want to get on with their lives and bringing up their children. As always, the wankers who say they represent the people are in it mainly for themselves.

Can anyone genuinely question why the Jewish population are so guarded after the Holocaust of just around 80 years ago, similarly can anyone not feel sympathy for the normal Palestinian population continually dragged into conflict by anti Zionist rhetoric?

It’s truly tragic that a small minority can drive a wedge between ordinary folk, I can’t take sides, there’s no binary opinion that will ever win, conciliation is the only answer but it looks pretty bleak.

 

[blumoonrisen]

Most folk worldwide don't want wars, everyone just wants to get on with their lives in peace.
They're all caused by countries leaders and carried out by the brainwashed who join up and those forced into it.
Won't be in my lifetime but one day everyone will wake up and put an end to it.
You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one..

 

[goalmole]

3 times we have asked the IDF to confirm but so far they haven't .... but fuck it lets run with it anyway

I stopped believing this bullshit propaganda when the story about Iraqi troops unplugging baby life support machines in a Kuwaiti hospital, complete with a crying eye witness to make the story totally believable was proved to be just that, made up bullshit propaganda.

 

[goalmole]

Most folk worldwide don't want wars, everyone just wants to get on with their lives in peace.
They're all caused by countries leaders and carried out by the brainwashed who join up and those forced into it.
Won't be in my lifetime but one day everyone will wake up and put an end to it.
You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one..

Unfortunately, it'll never happen.

 

[blumoonrisen]

Unfortunately, it'll never happen.

Not any time soon. I believe it will eventually.

 

[goalmole]

Heard a report today saying that the rockets used by Hamas were the same ones, and I don't mean the same type, that the Americans had supplied to the Ukrainians.
I wonder how they got to Hamas.
Couldn't possibly be the cuddly democratic Ukrainians who we've all been cheerleading for for the last 18 months lining their own pockets by selling armaments donated to them to fight the Russians, could it?

 

[trueblue1972]

Heard a report today saying that the rockets used by Hamas were the same ones, and I don't mean the same type, that the Americans had supplied to the Ukrainians.
I wonder how they got to Hamas.
Couldn't possibly be the cuddly democratic Ukrainians who we've all been cheerleading for for the last 18 months lining their own pockets by selling armaments donated to them to fight the Russians, could it?

The Palestinian rocket arsenal used in the Arab–Israeli conflict includes a wide range of rockets and missiles, varying in design, size and payload capacity. Palestinian rockets include those locally made in Gaza and the West Bank as well as weapons smuggled from Iran and Syria. Rockets are used in attacks on Israel, mostly to target Israeli civilian centers[1] in addition to Israeli military posts. Various Palestinian groups have used rockets against Israel including Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, as well as left-wing groups.[2] Rockets are one of the main weapons produced by Palestinian militant and freedom fighter groups.

 

[blumoonrisen]

Both sides are being played.

 

[goalmole]

Not any time soon. I believe it will eventually.

It won't, I'm sorry to say
There are and always will be too many selfish narcissists in positions of power who don't give a flying fuck for justice and peace, and certainly not for the people, who will cause wars to exploit others for their own benefit.
It's just a part of the human condition, always will be.

 

[blumoonrisen]

It won't, I'm sorry to say
There are and always will be too many selfish narcissists in positions of power who don't give a flying fuck for justice and peace, and certainly not for the people, who will cause wars to exploit others for their own benefit.
It's just a part of the human condition, always will be.

Like I said, I'm not talking any time soon.
There are more people around now who would refuse to fight in wars than there were years ago, mainly down to education, access to information and even evolution. There has to be a tipping point.

 

[goalmole]

Like I said, I'm not talking any time soon.
There are more people around now who would refuse to fight in wars than there were years ago, mainly down to education, access to information and even evolution. There has to be a tipping point.

Well, I admire your indefatigability and your sentiments, and with all my heart wish your dream comes true, even if I think it never will.

 

[goalmole]

The Palestinian rocket arsenal used in the Arab–Israeli conflict includes a wide range of rockets and missiles, varying in design, size and payload capacity. Palestinian rockets include those locally made in Gaza and the West Bank as well as weapons smuggled from Iran and Syria. Rockets are used in attacks on Israel, mostly to target Israeli civilian centers[1] in addition to Israeli military posts. Various Palestinian groups have used rockets against Israel including Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, as well as left-wing groups.[2] Rockets are one of the main weapons produced by Palestinian militant and freedom fighter groups.

Wikipedia isn't the place to go to confirm a current or evolving story.