Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Gorton_Tubster said:
Is it true to say that Israel are slowly just stealing the land around them? I mean I see all those videos showing the ever-decreasing Palestinian land but is it that true? Is there another side to that?
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Yes it is a fact that settlers settled on land illegally seek to expand illegal settlements daily

bear in mind this pre-dates 7/10 by over a week

www.theguardian.com

‘A new Nakba’: settler violence forces Palestinians out of West Bank villages

Communities who have clung on for decades are leaving their homes in the face of rising attrition by Israelis
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Vanessa Feltz speaks some facts here and some that are still reputed but sadly she reflects the Israeli/Jewish point of view which will not accept the facts in the counter argument Peter Oborne makes. Until there is some acceptance of what has gone on since the IDF counter attack then any interviews from people who only want to stop the killings are pointless

 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Just to clarify, because one set of war crimes hasn’t been headline news means that all other war crimes should be “ignored” too?

Is that your reasoning?
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That’s not what I’m saying at all - no idea how you’ve managed to pull that one out.

A previous poster mentioned turkey speaking out - no one should be listening to them after the genocide they have committed.

I’m saying the atrocities that countries such as turkey commit don’t seem to get as much attention. It’s the same with things that have happened in Yemen and Syria. Don’t think that’s too controversial really.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
That’s not what I’m saying at all - no idea how you’ve managed to pull that one out.

A previous poster mentioned turkey speaking out - no one should be listening to them after the genocide they have committed.

I’m saying the atrocities that countries such as turkey commit don’t seem to get as much attention. It’s the same with things that have happened in Yemen and Syria. Don’t think that’s too controversial really.
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So it is that they can’t speak out on war crimes because they commit them too.

Guess we’ve committed our fair share to, so should have no voice either.

Are there many puritan countries left able to speak?
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
So it is that they can’t speak out on war crimes because they commit them too.

Guess we’ve committed our fair share to, so should have no voice either.

Are there many puritan countries left able to speak?
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Alright then so if isis or other terrorist groups speak out on war crimes you’d be all for that? Russia as well? And you’d listen to what they have to say?

Of course we have done some terrible things, but I’m not listening to what turkey have to say after they have committed genocide and committed acts some would say are just as bad, if not worse than Israel. I’m talking specifically about turkey, not every country in the world, ever.

The post I was replying to was about turkey if you go back a few pages. If you want to endorse what a corrupt dictatorship in turkey have to say you go for it. You can use it in your next argument like a previous poster did.
 
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Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Alright then so if isis or other terrorist groups speak out on war crimes you’d be all for that? Russia as well? And you’d listen to what they have to say?

Of course we have done some terrible things, but I’m not listening to what turkey have to say after they have committed genocide and committed acts some would say are just as bad, if not worse than Israel. I’m talking specifically about turkey, not every country in the world, ever.

The post I was replying to was about turkey if you go back a few pages. If you want to endorse what a corrupt dictatorship in turkey have to say you go for it. You can use it in your next argument like a previous poster did.
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I just wanted to get back to highlighting the citizens of Palestine being murdered indiscriminately, rather than have a huge debate on who can mention a war crime.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
I just wanted to get back to highlighting the citizens of Palestine being murdered indiscriminately, rather than have a huge debate on who can mention a war crime.
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Fair enough. I was just replying to someone who thought bringing up turkey speaking out was a good idea.

As I said it’s the equivalent of using Russia speaking out against Israel in an argument about the conflict. Who cares they’ve committed genocide in Ukraine, they still apparently can speak up on the issue and it’s valid to use their opinion in a debate ….

I’ll leave it at that
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Fair enough. I was just replying to someone who thought bringing up turkey speaking out was a good idea.

As I said it’s the equivalent of using Russia speaking out against Israel in an argument about the conflict. Who cares they’ve committed genocide in Ukraine, they still apparently can speak up on the issue and it’s valid to use their opinion in a debate ….

I’ll leave it at that
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No worries CHB, I asked for clarification and you gave it.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Having read what you have written previously, I will abstain from conversing with you in this thread.
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Pardon my bluntness, but I have said nothing bad in this thread in the slightest, and certainly haven’t thrown around words like “genocide.”

My big “crime” was to point out that INSIDE a war such as this, propaganda and lies live deep inside the fog of war, especially in the early days. I pointed out that there would be either excuses, or ignorance of facts, about the ALLEGED Israeli bombing of a hospital. Within hours of my post (and banning for it), it was announced that the Israelis said it was not their missile and it appeared to be a misfiring Hamas missile, or “friendly fire.” Indeed, even today the U.S. has said they’ve been convinced tunnels and infrastructure under hospitals are being used by Hamas.

Now, do you honestly believe that the IDF is engaged in a Palestinian genocide, as opposed to a war with a terrorist group that crossed the border, executed and kidnapped Israelis, and then disappeared back into the population?

Yes or No. it’s a simple answer. But, it will inform me as to whether you are someone who is even interested in the reality of what is happening, rather than throwing around inflammatory language that is especially offensive to those of the Jewish faith, for whom the Holocaust (an actual attempt at genocide) is still a living memory.

I don’t know you and you certainly don’t know me, but you seem to have preconceptions that colour your vision and have placed yourself on some illusory high moral ground.

I’ll just head back to the football threads, so you pseudo-intellectuals can continue to try to out-moral each other!
 
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ChicagoBlue said:
I don’t know you and you certainly don’t know me, but you seem to have preconceptions that colour your vision and have placed yourself on some illusory high moral ground.
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I have said nothing and will say nothing to you on this thread. I saw what you wrote. I claim no moral high ground, I simply don’t want to converse with you.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Suggesting that Turkey can’t comment on war crimes because they are also committing them kind of misses the point and we should be stopping all of them, rather than just suggesting that they’re one to talk and ignoring it.

We, as a country, have committed war crimes in the past, so maybe we can’t discuss them either.

It doesn’t work as a sound debating stance.

Meanwhile, we ignore the kids still being bombed indiscriminately, it seems.

No doubt someone will be along in a bit to call me anti-Semitic to further move the spotlight from the genicide taking place.
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A pretty poor Genocide where the Palestinian Population has increased Five Fold in the last 20 years
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
I have said nothing and will say nothing to you on this thread. I saw what you wrote. I claim no moral high ground, I simply don’t want to converse with you.
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I can live with that. I really don’t have anything to say to you personally, other than the use of the term “genocide” is not one to be thrown around indiscriminately.

You decide. Here is the genesis of that term:

Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin coined the term genocide in his 1944 book "Axis Rule in Occupied Europe", combining the Greek word γένος (genos, "race, people") with the Latin suffix -caedo ("act of killing").

In "Axis rule", Lemkin documents his research of Nazi occupation policies in Europe, and records a case study of the occupation of Poland.

Lemkin asserted that Nazi atrocities against Poles consisted of five policies which exposed their "intent to destroy" the Polish nation.

These included:

i) mass-killings of Poles

ii) inflicting "serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group"

iii) planned deterioration of living conditions "calculated to bring about their destruction"

iv) implementation of various "measures intended to prevent births within the group" such as promotion of abortions, burdening pregnant women, etc.

v) forced transfer of Polish children to German families.

Each of these five markers, according to Lemkin, revealed the Nazi plan to eliminate the Polish identity with certainty.

These five criteria were adopted by the 1948 Genocide Convention as its proof for the concept of genocidal intent.
-/-/-/-

Language matters. Indeed, it is especially important when not able to interact face to face, lest hyperbole and misstatement create a false narrative or impression.

I’d posit that the first 3 criteria are present in almost all wars, but the last 2 criteria elevate the atrocities of war into another realm.

This is not that, in my opinion.
 
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