PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[OB1]

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Always thought the same , basically they will be calling Mansour and Khaldoon liars . This goes well beyond a football club .

And who runs Mubadala?

 

[IcriedwhenTueartleft]

the problem with that strategy is that it usually indicates one of two things, it either indicates an absolute slam dunk of a case where they have no intention of letting the settle because everything is so watertight OR that the evidence is so shaky that you have gone for shock and awe tactics to make the other party so nervous that they take the charges because the other parties perceived confidence is so much that it isnt worth fighting which is the tactic of the bully, i would suggest the pl case falls very much into the latter category.

I would imagine that all evidence is disclosed in advance so City know exactly what is in front of them. The PL cannot just turn up on day one and say “Here’s Gladys who worked in the laundry room & in 2012 she saw Khaldoon handing Mancini £2m in cash & heard him say “FFS Bobby boy,don’t tell anybody””

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Anyone who substantively conflates City and Everton is either thick, dishonest or possibly both.

Which pretty well sums up most of the media (both) and red-shirt fans (just thick).

But seriously, that full post is spot on. Everton, despite working with the PL, refused to curtail their spending, breached an already generous limit, then advanced some incredibly specious arguments in an attempt at mitigation.

The penalty is excessive I think, and a transfer ban in reaction to overspending would have been more appropriate under the circumstances, but no one seems to have thought of that. It was a points deduction or a fine.

I'd say a maximum 6-point deduction and a 2 year transfer ban, plus an agreed plan to get their finances under control, would have been the appropriate penalty. What the panel have done is the equivalent of sending someone to prison for 6 months after getting 12 points on their driving licence. It's worrying that the panel so easily acceded to the PL's demand for that deduction. And we know what the PL were doing in requesting that.

 

[mancboy]

I would imagine that all evidence is disclosed in advance so City know exactly what is in front of them. The PL cannot just turn up on day one and say “Here’s Gladys who worked in the laundry room & in 2012 she saw Khaldoon handing Mancini £2m in cash & heard him say “FFS Bobby boy,don’t tell anybody””

the funny thing with the bobby one is that he has said that nobody has contacted him, i wonder why, surely if one of the main points of your prosecution is illegal payments to a person, the first thing youd want to do is talk to that person, they havent and that wouldnt be because it would blow their main charge out of the water would it?

 

[Norbert D]

IF the club was charged with fraud then realistically people are looking at jail time, this is what really makes me believe that the PL dont have anything, if they had the evidence for these charges they would and should have turned it over to the CPS who could have obtained a legal warrant to turn over everything they needed to prove criminality, why havent they?

As someone pointed out to me yesterday, IF we are found guilty it will be of breaching rule blah blah blah, nowhere will it ever mention the word fraud but it will mean exactly that. I seem to recall when Ashley was running Newcastle into the ground they got raided by HMRC, it all went quiet after that so not sure if it just fizzled out, but IF the EPL and fellow travellers like Parry and Gill had evidence we had committed fraud the rozzers would have raided the Etihad a long time ago. Unless there is a smoking gun, very unlikely, this is just a smear campaign that will run its course.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It really doesn't though.

Are you saying there aren't just three issues at the heart of this? Well obviously we don't know with 100% certainty but the evidence even in the wording of the charges seems to indicate that there are, as they specifically mention them.

 

[1961_vintage]

I'd say a maximum 6-point deduction and a 2 year transfer ban, plus an agreed plan to get their finances under control, would have been the appropriate penalty.

I suspect that this is where it will end-up on appeal.

 

[iwasthere1968]

My reply is incomplete. The full answer should continue as follows.

When the charges are in proper form, the party alleging misconduct should disclose its supporting evidence. The tactical burden shifts to the other side when the charges have been finalised, and all the evidence has been disclosed. The other side may then respond and, if necessary, call evidence in rebuttal. The burden of proving remains on the party alleging misconduct throughout. The case will only be established if, at the end of the hearing, the evidence shows that the allegations are likely true on the balance of probabilities, i.e. guilt is more likely than not.

The principles I describe above are based on notions of simple fairness. Without rules that modify them, the common law will require their application.

The problem with the current proceedings is that they have, as I understand it, been framed in such a way as to exclude a review by a judge for procedural irregularities and unfairness. The club will have to trust its vastly experienced team of lawyers to see that the proceedings conform to these basics.

Thanks for the time and effort to respond.
I suppose the next question is , where in this process do you ( or anyone else ) think we are ?

 

[Damanino]

not sure how independent the panel is after leaked info PL wants 12 points punishment about 2-3 weeks before the decision handed out of 10 points.
it all feels like a pantomime.

PL saying they have no more access to the case, its all to be decided by the 3 man panel, but is that true or is that what the red tops want them to say?

Khaldoon and Mansour needs to be fully aware whats going on here, its all a racist attack by PL and media.

 

[OB1]

I know this may sound like a kamikaze approach but still…

Club said they have irrefutable evidence. Why not publish it on the City website? No need to wait, get the info out there. Show the payments and explanations then watch the fallout. Hit back against the media. I am not saying give the sensitive info that would aid our rivals but just the simple payment structure and the explanation.

We are losing the hearts and minds battle ground anyway.

Kamikaze is correct. So it should not and won’t happen.

 

[OB1]

Is that relevant? Aren’t all 3 people on the panel neutral irrespective of who they are nominated by?

They are supposed to be but it doesn’t mean they are.

 

[Chi-town blues]

I know this may sound like a kamikaze approach but still…

Club said they have irrefutable evidence. Why not publish it on the City website? No need to wait, get the info out there. Show the payments and explanations then watch the fallout. Hit back against the media. I am not saying give the sensitive info that would aid our rivals but just the simple payment structure and the explanation.

We are losing the hearts and minds battle ground anyway.

My guess is kamikaze approach is opposite of holistic approach.

 

[rickmcfc]

The Prem want to keep this all in house with their Kangaroo court and officials who support red teams , but it cant, and wont be that way. They are accusing some very big political powerful people of fraud on a grand scale. The Prem see it as a football matter the people accused wont. Are the prem so thick and stupid that they cant see the ramifications of their actions ? This will go beyond football ,the Sheikh and/or Khaldoon only have to move some contracts around and take some away from the government give them to other countries, and Sunak will make this his number one priority, because he cant afford the country losing investment at a time when he needs as much funds in the country to try and buy votes in a looming election .

Totally agree with that. But what if (genuinely if) we are guilty then we must face up to the facts and punishments.

The issue at the moment other than the PL coming out with the statement that City have breached 115 rules (relating to literally everything not specifically FFP) there is nothing to state exactly what we have been accused of. This issue we have is these breaches were first mentioned a year ago, and what’s happened since? Is there a date set for city to plead its case, has this already been done, how long does this whole process take?

Nobody knows. It’s a a complete shit show

 

[wolviedinho]

IF the club was charged with fraud then realistically people are looking at jail time, this is what really makes me believe that the PL dont have anything, if they had the evidence for these charges they would and should have turned it over to the CPS who could have obtained a legal warrant to turn over everything they needed to prove criminality, why havent they?

This is the crux isn’t it? Where is the proof to charge!

 

[OB1]

I'm sure they only included the answers that suited their agenda. I have always found Stefan to be fair and considered. From the start he has highlighted how serious these charges are (which is true) whilst stressing that the burden of proof of guilt in this case is going to be considerable. You can ask him on here if he is 'surrender monkey' though.

Given that his comments are not anonymous, he needs to careful what he posts.

 

[Chi-town blues]

Totally agree with that. But what if (genuinely if) we are guilty then we must face up to the facts and punishments.

The issue at the moment other than the PL coming out with the statement that City have breached 115 rules (relating to literally everything not specifically FFP) there is nothing to state exactly what we have been accused of. This issue we have is these breaches were first mentioned a year ago, and what’s happened since? Is there a date set for city to plead its case, has this already been done, how long does this whole process take?

Nobody knows. It’s a a complete witch hunt.

Small edit for accuracy .

 

[Coatigan]

Do you know something that PB doesn't? Why so negative?

It is not fucking negative ffs. It is just being factual.

It is great that we all want to cling onto anything anyone says and be dismissive and pretend it is all trivial.

That not the reality, that's just being selective, and then extending it to being dishonest.

I am positive in that I believe the club guys, and mostly expect a good outcome. And it will fill all the better, the real scale of it, and not the pretend 'it's nothing' head in the sand.

 

[rickmcfc]

not sure how independent the panel is after leaked info PL wants 12 points punishment about 2-3 weeks before the decision handed out of 10 points.
it all feels like a pantomime.

PL saying they have no more access to the case, its all to be decided by the 3 man panel, but is that true or is that what the red tops want them to say?

Khaldoon and Mansour needs to be fully aware whats going on here, its all a racist attack by PL and media.

Racist?

 

[Bodicoteblue]

IF the club was charged with fraud then realistically people are looking at jail time, this is what really makes me believe that the PL dont have anything, if they had the evidence for these charges they would and should have turned it over to the CPS who could have obtained a legal warrant to turn over everything they needed to prove criminality, why havent they?

And if it is criminal behaviour we are being charged with then surely the matter would fall outside the remit of the PL, and into the courts of law, which include all the rights of appeal.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

The one in that case was the person “appointed” by UEFA wasn’t it?

That's my only worry, the PL case will have 3 appointed by them with no say in the top table from us at all.