PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Johnny Mars Bar]

This is what happens when you spend your life on Twitter.

 

[willipp]

If united failed ffp under eufa rules and were fined, why aren't the PL looking at that as well? Not in a sarcastic way, but genuinely why aren't they? Were their losses not enough to fail PL ffp?

 

[cheekybids]

The PL undoubtedly rushed out the charges and made a balls of it but there is no way they hadn't had a top class legal team looking at the case for years to establish if they could make charges stick.

Look at what the cost will be to the PL from the charges onwards. As well as paying a world class legal team to represent them (one that won't be inferior to ours) they are paying the huge cost of the panel and all the support staff for as long as it takes (many years maybe). The PL will be outspending the club in this process so cost isn't an issue. The PL has lots of money so if it cost say 250 mill from start to finish they won't bat an eyelid. All I've been trying to point out in my last few posts is that in my view these aren't just a back of a fag packet charges that we can swat away whilst Pannick et al are laughing their bollocks off. Even one substantive charge landed would be catastrophic for the club. Breezy over-confidence is fine for a forum but I'm sure that the club is well aware of what's at stake here.

It still makes no sense that they got the charges wrong. You’d think when they are advising they are looking at the year book & the allegation.

You’d also think they’d say CAS over ruled because of this, so it’s unlikely & a reason they didn’t move forward for 4 years.

Also the sheer volume of charges is vindictive & inconsistent. If you want someone nailed & quickly you wouldn’t create head aches for yourself. It would be like throwing charges of “fly tipping” at Peter Sutcliffe.

 

[bluetonium]

I was reading a short paper on this from some professor in finance at Sheffield University. He refrained of course from trying to predict any outcome, but he did say that regardless of the outcome FFP has been shown to be inadequate and the FA / UEFA incapable of regulating member clubs against its own directives. This could be a huge catalyst for change in the football world.

Whichever way the verdict falls, there will be much fallout. I foresee the end of FFP in the current form and an independence regulator appointed, with a very real prospect of a huge rebellion against the status quo resulting in breakaway leagues and more. It could be the end of the premier league's dominance even, with pressures to form European or World leagues only getting stronger.

The FA now have a situation where they and other member clubs have accused their most successful club of cheating, even fraudulent behaviour, and those making the accusations really need to know the seriousness of that, and the implications for them in terms of their position and credibility. If we win, we'll want the record setting straight and there will be many noses out of of joint, noses we know full well don't like to accept the reality of the situation. If we lose, that's probably easier for the FA but,I feel, much harder to prove and quite unlikely. Certainly 115 charges, or whatever it actually is, we will not be found guilty on all of them. The bar of required evidence is far too high for the FA to meet, based on what I have seen of their arguments, leaks and conduct.

All this for some very suspect charges, probably to satisfy the old boys club. I do still think they'll try to stick us with non cooperation again, but I can't foresee how the FA have, or even think they have, nearly sufficient evidence to prove their allegations. If that happens, expect a United, Arsenal and Liverpool led revolt, as the hand that feeds is unceremoniously chomped at by those same ungrateful, spolied brats.

 

[SilverFox2]

To be honest you’d expect other fans to wind us up, nowt we can do about it, as for the media we are the news nowadays it’s kind of complimentary not that I read or listen to any of it

Let's be fair the best brains from the ones who control the PL have failed to stop City via our owners from being what they are today.
Their hubris still exists so our owners must have cheated somewhere is their feeling.

The alternative cannot possibly be true ie Sheikh M and his Management teams business plan showed up a cartel of self serving takers despite their ever changing rules against City.

We should not blame the brainwashed media for clickbating PL reaction to their lost war to stop the rise of City because this what they do.

Our enemies should be ashamed that they failed so miserably. Their rules used on and off the field yet they still lost.

The ironic thing is that the rules of FFP are more likely to be observed by City than any of the other teams as some recent fines have shown.

Long term planning and continuing investment of profits is a massive threat to our enemies who mostly have a need for football profits elsewhere so FFP is their problem now.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The notion that the over simplistic “if Everton, then City” helps me separate the idiots from those who have looked at each case and seen they are distinctly different.

Anyone who says “if Everton got 10 points for £19M, City must get…..!” is simply unable to understand what is happening in front of their own eyes and should be duly dismissed out of hand.

 

[waspish]

What gets me they just threw the points deduction in the ffp rules last year when clubs have struggled because of Covid inflation and the way the world is now!

Why didnt they initial bring in a point deduction in to the premier rules when they first brought it in? Also don't do it over 3 year monitoring period do it over 1 year and you can't lose more than 35m in your accounts and if you went over by 5m that's 1 points deduction! Now if you start with that low a point deduction and any club did go over it and they got deducted a point in the early years of ffp, clubs would of realise the premier was serious about ffp! Then they could made it worse for losing money 8f clubs kept losing money!

 

[Ric]

I was reading a short paper on this from some professor in finance at Sheffield University. He refrained of course from trying to predict any outcome, but he did say that regardless of the outcome FFP has been shown to be inadequate and the FA / UEFA incapable of regulating member clubs against its own directives. This could be a huge catalyst for change in the football world.

Whichever way the verdict falls, there will be much fallout. I foresee the end of FFP in the current form and an independence regulator appointed, with a very real prospect of a huge rebellion against the status quo resulting in breakaway leagues and more. It could be the end of the premier league's dominance even, with pressures to form European or World leagues only getting stronger.

The FA now have a situation where they and other member clubs have accused their most successful club of cheating, even fraudulent behaviour, and those making the accusations really need to know the seriousness of that, and the implications for them in terms of their position and credibility. If we win, we'll want the record setting straight and there will be many noses out of of joint, noses we know full well don't like to accept the reality of the situation. If we lose, that's probably easier for the FA but,I feel, much harder to prove and quite unlikely. Certainly 115 charges, or whatever it actually is, we will not be found guilty on all of them. The bar of required evidence is far too high for the FA to meet, based on what I have seen of their arguments, leaks and conduct.

All this for some very suspect charges, probably to satisfy the old boys club. I do still think they'll try to stick us with non cooperation again, but I can't foresee how the FA have, or even think they have, nearly sufficient evidence to prove their allegations. If that happens, expect a United, Arsenal and Liverpool led revolt, as the hand that feeds is unceremoniously chomped at by those same ungrateful, spolied brats.

A small point of order, but it is the Premier League who have charged us, rather than the FA.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

It still makes no sense that they got the charges wrong. You’d think when they are advising they are looking at the year book & the allegation.

You’d also think they’d say CAS over ruled because of this, so it’s unlikely & a reason they didn’t move forward for 4 years.

Also the sheer volume of charges is vindictive & inconsistent. If you want someone nailed & quickly you wouldn’t create head aches for yourself. It would be like throwing charges of “fly tipping” at Peter Sutcliffe.

Well I can well imagine that it started as a fishing expedition to see what they could add to the hack information but what I can't imagine is that they were advised by a top legal team that they had nothing but still went ahead.

Obviously neither Pannick or their KC will be doing it on a no win-no fee basis but again surely neither are that desperate that they need to take on a hopeless case. Both sides think they can win in my view so a guaranteed slam dunk for us is wishful thinking. All a matter of opinion of course and many others will have an entirely different take on it. I just wish it would reach a conclusion in months rather than years but I highly doubt it.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Very interesting episode of 9320 out on this subject with Stefan for those that subscribe.

 

[Shirley]

Absolutely this. If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't be aware of what Harris and the likes are saying during their obsessive Twitter rants. And as his latest posts show, he's doing it for a bite and when he gets it playing the victim off it.

The man clearly isn't well. But we should leave him in the playground of the unwell with his pals, rather than giving him and his "friend" reason to venture over here.

Amazed Harris has got involved in any rant, he usually just blocks anyone who responds to him

 

[Ric]

Whilst I like the cut of your jib mate, the PL don't have to prove we've committed 'fraud on an industrial scale'. Indeed they don't have the authority or competence to do this.
The independent panel they have appointed only has to decide by majority verdict and on the balance of probability that some of our transactions broke FFP rules.
And that is a much lower bar.
Like you I'm still confident that the club will be cleared of these charges.

Given that they have effectively accused us of fraudulent accounting over a prolonged period, then this is indeed what they'd have to prove in order to land all of their charges. Whilst the standard of proof is just the balance of probabilities, as with all civil cases, the serious nature of the charges means that cogent evidence is required. If they were only able to show that some of our transactions broke FFP rules then we'd be looking at a minor points deduction at worse.

 

[Brendan110_0]

Just remember, nothing about this process is impartial. We’re getting fucked in the ass regardless of evidence. This is why we need the independent regulator.

 

[cheekybids]

Well I can well imagine that it started as a fishing expedition to see what they could add to the hack information but what I can't imagine is that they were advised by a top legal team that they had nothing but still went ahead.

Obviously neither Pannick or their KC will be doing it on a no win-no fee basis but again surely neither are that desperate that they need to take on a hopeless case. Both sides think they can win in my view so a guaranteed slam dunk for us is wishful thinking. All a matter of opinion of course and many others will have an entirely different take on it. I just wish it would reach a conclusion in months rather than years but I highly doubt it.

I’ve just settled on a personal case, my solicitor advised me they’ll offer a low settlement quickly & accept. He then said the client was telling their solicitor not to settle, by the 3rd conciliation meeting I was told their Solicitor said to his client you need to settle which they ignored. 14 months later I accepted x3 more than my solicitor initially advised as it was clear they had no defence & its cost them x6 with their costs.

I accepted as I did everything my solicitor told me despite the opportunity to receive even more in court as it’s a risk.
They refused as it was their ego until the point when they realised they are well & truely fcked.

There’s egos & agendas.

 

[Ric]

Well I can well imagine that it started as a fishing expedition to see what they could add to the hack information but what I can't imagine is that they were advised by a top legal team that they had nothing but still went ahead.

You wouldn't have thought so, but this is pretty much what UEFA did, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Never underestimate the stupidity of football administrators.

I know you're a bit dismissive of the idea, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there was a degree of coercion from other clubs, plus there is the looming threat of an independent regulator. These factors could easily have muddied the water for the PL, and resulted in them overreaching with their charges.

That's not to play down the seriousness of the case, and there is an awful lot at stakes for both sides. I don't think anyone at this stage can say with any degree of certainty what the outcome will be.

 

[mcfcphil]

Well I can well imagine that it started as a fishing expedition to see what they could add to the hack information but what I can't imagine is that they were advised by a top legal team that they had nothing but still went ahead.

Obviously neither Pannick or their KC will be doing it on a no win-no fee basis but again surely neither are that desperate that they need to take on a hopeless case. Both sides think they can win in my view so a guaranteed slam dunk for us is wishful thinking. All a matter of opinion of course and many others will have an entirely different take on it. I just wish it would reach a conclusion in months rather than years but I highly doubt it.

“Strong and wrong beats weak and right”

 

[Rory Bluelow]

The notion that the over simplistic “if Everton, then City” helps me separate the idiots from those who have looked at each case and seen they are distinctly different.

Anyone who says “if Everton got 10 points for £19M, City must get…..!” is simply unable to understand what is happening in front of their own eyes and should be duly dismissed out of hand.

Yep, it’s a great short cut.

 

[Eric Hitchmough]

Mad to think this is gonna hang over us for another couple of years.

 

[Stoned Rose]

I was reading a short paper on this from some professor in finance at Sheffield University. He refrained of course from trying to predict any outcome, but he did say that regardless of the outcome FFP has been shown to be inadequate and the FA / UEFA incapable of regulating member clubs against its own directives. This could be a huge catalyst for change in the football world.

Whichever way the verdict falls, there will be much fallout. I foresee the end of FFP in the current form and an independence regulator appointed, with a very real prospect of a huge rebellion against the status quo resulting in breakaway leagues and more. It could be the end of the premier league's dominance even, with pressures to form European or World leagues only getting stronger.

The FA now have a situation where they and other member clubs have accused their most successful club of cheating, even fraudulent behaviour, and those making the accusations really need to know the seriousness of that, and the implications for them in terms of their position and credibility. If we win, we'll want the record setting straight and there will be many noses out of of joint, noses we know full well don't like to accept the reality of the situation. If we lose, that's probably easier for the FA but,I feel, much harder to prove and quite unlikely. Certainly 115 charges, or whatever it actually is, we will not be found guilty on all of them. The bar of required evidence is far too high for the FA to meet, based on what I have seen of their arguments, leaks and conduct.

All this for some very suspect charges, probably to satisfy the old boys club. I do still think they'll try to stick us with non cooperation again, but I can't foresee how the FA have, or even think they have, nearly sufficient evidence to prove their allegations. If that happens, expect a United, Arsenal and Liverpool led revolt, as the hand that feeds is unceremoniously chomped at by those same ungrateful, spolied brats.

It’s got fuck all to do with the FA.

 

[decmancity]

If united failed ffp under eufa rules and were fined, why aren't the PL looking at that as well? Not in a sarcastic way, but genuinely why aren't they? Were their losses not enough to fail PL ffp?

Completely different rules. Didn't fail Premier league FFP.