United Thread - 2023/24

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Actually as I was about to sleep I remembered that Rihanna song “what’s my name”

We, and by that I mean the Royal we literally everyone, can re-purpose it to “Onana, he’s fucking shit” x 3 then the refrain “he’s fucking he’s fucking shit!”

It’s a bit simple, but I think it works.

Song for reference
 
bluenova said:
I'm saying that he currently is second best this season in terms of preventing that ball going in the net when the opponent has a shot on target.

Last season he was the best by far in the Champions League when it came to preventing shots going into the goal.

You'll get plenty of people who will argue that's the best thing a keeper can do, but these days it's clearly more complicated.

Ederson is the ideal keeper for Man City - he's clearly on another level with his feet. He's also been shown to stop a lot of goals by being a front foot keeper - sweeping up, and claiming crosses. He too is very good at making saves, but has never been one of the very, very best at shot stopping.
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Maybe he doesn’t get much practice
How many clangers has Onana dropped? He should have conceded a pen v Wolves He’s cost the rags points Eddy hasn’t cost City any that makes him better in my book
 
bluenova said:
It's not that daft - but I understand why it seems so. The stat is how many goals the keeper has stopped above and beyond what's expected.

Clearly the keepers facing a lot of shots can do better here, hence Luton, but you can take that out by looking at the percentages.

If you're conceding 30 goals instead of 34 - that's nowhere near as good as conceding 10 instead of 14, despite both keepers preventing 4 goals.

In percentage terms in the PL this year Onana is still second, with only Alisson ahead of him. Alisson, despite making plenty of clangers against City, has consistently been one of the top few shot stoppers in world football, so that's much more impressive company to be in.

Onana was also, by some distance, the best keeper in terms of preventing goals in the Champions League last year. He's arguably the main reason why Inter got anywhere near the final.

He's clearly a bizarre keeper, given how many errors he's made already, but Ten Hag is right, that even with those errors, he's helped United significantly in the PL this season.
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That's a long post, to come to the wrong conclusion. He's been shit, that's why they are panicking like fuck about him.
 
jacko74 said:
The point j was attempting to make albeit possibly not very well is Rashford earns £300k a week and that car is worth around £200k

Now if you scale those 2 sets of figures down...

A minimum wage earner taking home £300 a week would need to be driving a car worth no more than £200 for the "5% of the cars value" fine to be an equal punishment?

Obviously it's not realistic for anyone to be driving around in a car worth only £200 these days, probably the minimum for a vaguely reliable car would be £2,000... so proportionally the minimum wage earner is being far more severely punished when you compare earnings v car value when faced with a 5% of value fine.
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The police should follow the PL lead: financial sanctions are obviously no deterrent to wealthy people, so there should be a sporting sanction. United should have to play him every minute of every game until the end of the season.

In goal. :)

Actually no, he would probably be better than Onana. Up front then.
 
bluenova said:
I'm saying that he currently is second best this season in terms of preventing that ball going in the net when the opponent has a shot on target.

Last season he was the best by far in the Champions League when it came to preventing shots going into the goal.

You'll get plenty of people who will argue that's the best thing a keeper can do, but these days it's clearly more complicated.

Ederson is the ideal keeper for Man City - he's clearly on another level with his feet. He's also been shown to stop a lot of goals by being a front foot keeper - sweeping up, and claiming crosses. He too is very good at making saves, but has never been one of the very, very best at shot stopping.
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but it is no good saving 3 chances and then shipping a goal with a huge error and he has plenty of them.

You used to see these stats show that the shittest teams keepers were always rated high because they have such a huge amount of shots on their goal, that, of course, they are all competent keepers and will make enough saves to ride high in the stats department.

Hence why he and the Luton Town keeper are #1 and 2.

Cut the SOT ratio down and then any keeper error is magnified, say hello Claudio Bravo.
 
talkativesprout said:
United getting investigated by Trafford Council after a food poisoning outbreak that is thought due to under cooked Poultry...Well they needed something to go with the stuffing they receive each week
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They do have history for distributing meat unfit for consumption. (Insert joke about your chosen bluemoon poster here).
 
bluenova said:
I'm saying that he currently is second best this season in terms of preventing that ball going in the net when the opponent has a shot on target.

Last season he was the best by far in the Champions League when it came to preventing shots going into the goal.

You'll get plenty of people who will argue that's the best thing a keeper can do, but these days it's clearly more complicated.

Ederson is the ideal keeper for Man City - he's clearly on another level with his feet. He's also been shown to stop a lot of goals by being a front foot keeper - sweeping up, and claiming crosses. He too is very good at making saves, but has never been one of the very, very best at shot stopping.
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Onana is a shit keeper
 
bluealf said:
but it is no good saving 3 chances and then shipping a goal with a huge error and he has plenty of them.

You used to see these stats show that the shittest teams keepers were always rated high because they have such a huge amount of shots on their goal, that, of course, they are all competent keepers and will make enough saves to ride high in the stats department.

Hence why he and the Luton Town keeper are #1 and 2.
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Exactly. It should be based on how many goals you stop relative to the number of decent chances your opponents have, otherwise it's just a measure of the keeper playing in front of the worst defence. Especially when it also doesn't factor in cock ups that lead to goals. But even that's bollocks, because for an 'error leading to a goal' to count, you have to literally kick or fumble the ball directly to the person who scores. If it just goes to the person who assists, it doesn't count. If you let an easy shot through you, it doesn't count. So neither of those 'attempts' at saving against Galatasaray count as an error leading to a goal. Neither would giving away a penalty.

I think he's obviously a decent keeper, but he's inconsistent, and the stats seem to give credit for the good things they do, but have a high bar for blaming players for the bad things. Ederson regularly comes towards the bottom of these lists based on stats, and yet he's the only GK in the league with five titles and there's not a single City fan who would have us replace him. What does that tell you?
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Exactly. It should be based on how many goals you stop relative to the number of decent chances your opponents have, otherwise it's just a measure of the keeper playing in front of the worst defence. Especially when it also doesn't factor in cock ups that lead to goals. But even that's bollocks, because for an 'error leading to a goal' to count, you have to literally kick or fumble the ball directly to the person who scores. If it just goes to the person who assists, it doesn't count. If you let an easy shot through you, it doesn't count. So neither of those 'attempts' at saving against Galatasaray count as an error leading to a goal. Neither would giving away a penalty.

I think he's obviously a decent keeper, but he's inconsistent, and the stats seem to give credit for the good things they do, but have a high bar for blaming players for the bad things. Ederson regularly comes towards the bottom of these lists based on stats, and yet he's the only GK in the league with five titles and there's not a single City fan who would have us replace him. What does that tell you?
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I think the golden glove should go to the keeper with the best save percentage, not clean sheets.

A keeper who plays for Luton, Sheffield United for example is going to be a lot busier than a keeper who plays for City or Liverpool.
 
BlueMonkey79 said:
I think the golden glove should go to the keeper with the best save percentage, not clean sheets.

A keeper who plays for Luton, Sheffield United for example is going to be a lot busier than a keeper who plays for City or Liverpool.
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But even that's bollocks, because your save percentage is as much of a reflection of the way your team plays as your individual talent. A top team that plays a high line will typically give away fewer chances, but those chances will be much harder to save. Meanwhile a team that sits with 10 players in front of the keeper will be constantly peppered with chances, but they'll mostly be low quality.

You see this with Ederson in knockout games against top opponents in the Champions League. We're winning a game by one goal in the 85th minute and we start to play a bit more defensively to keep the lead, and Ederson suddenly starts pulling out some big saves, like he did in the CL final.

Ultimately, it shows the worth of these individual awards though.
 
southamptonblue said:
....and that is exactly why stats are pretty meaningless in football, just my opinion, but when people start trying to back their opinion with "stats" it shows how little they know about football.........not aimed at you, I realise you were explaining them ;)
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Stats and Xg biggest waste of time when analysing a game, they mean fuck all tbf.
 
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