gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
I was responding to the suggestion that the PL had claimed irrefutable evidence, which they plainly haven’t.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules
- Thread starter ayrshire_blue
- Start date
The charges are almost certainly a fishing expedition based on fuck all.
People keep saying this, to varying extremities.
But I just don't see how that can be the case, and I don't believe it.
To charge us to the extent they have, they Must have something to think they have enough and there is significant reaon there to do so.
That of course does not mean they are right, or their evidence/charges won't come undone and fall apart through the process and under rigourous challenge.
But I have never bought into this, they are just putting out what they can without any real thought or confidence in whether it has anything to it. Can't comprehend how that can be the case.
citizen_maine
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 May 2011
- Messages
- 18,161
UEFA thought they had enoughPeople keep saying this, to varying extremities.
But I just don't see how that can be the case, and I don't believe it.
To charge us to the extent they have, they Must have something to think they have enough and there is significant reaon there to do so.
That of course does not mean they are right, or their evidence/charges won't come undone and fall apart through the process and under rigourous challenge.
But I have never bought into this, they are just putting out what they can without any real thought or confidence in whether it has anything to it. Can't comprehend how that can be the case.
The thing I find hard to except is why only City. The fact that we are the only club with a 4 year investigation or more going on. Surely for the pl to be seen as honest and above board all pl clubs should be investigated to the same depth. If not than its clearly a witchhunt.
There have not been any allegations publicly brought up against other PL clubs. Once Der Spiegel published what they claimed was (hacked) evidence of fraudulent accounting, both Uefa and the PL had to investigate, given they both have ffp rules.
Uefa concluded theirs, CAS disagreed with their findings. The PL Could have at that point concluded theirs in line with the CAS findings, but they instead spent another 3 years investigating it and charging us.
Everton have recently been penalised, but not for failing FFP, not for trying to 'hide' it. I don't think the PL would go investigating all clubs, for not presenting accurate information, without some sort of allegation of wrongdoing first.
It ended at cas but premier clubs started the new Investigation not the premier
No, they started more or less concurrently. The PL one just carried on a further 2 or 3 years.
They Could have ended it after the CAS verdict, and applied the same publicly available interpretation of evidence as CAS. They didn't, either they think there is more in that, or they just don't agree with the CAS findings, like one of their own 3 members.
Last edited:
It depends what the motivation is.People keep saying this, to varying extremities.
But I just don't see how that can be the case, and I don't believe it.
To charge us to the extent they have, they Must have something to think they have enough and there is significant reaon there to do so.
That of course does not mean they are right, or their evidence/charges won't come undone and fall apart through the process and under rigourous challenge.
But I have never bought into this, they are just putting out what they can without any real thought or confidence in whether it has anything to it. Can't comprehend how that can be the case.
If the motivation is to charge and punish City for financial breaches then you’re right, it’s inconceivable they would do this without a substantial level of evidence / justification.
If the motivation is to cause reputation damage to City at the behest of other parties then it becomes quite conceivable they would lay the charges without substantial evidence / justification.
UEFA thought they had enough
Hence my 4th paragraph.
It depends what the motivation is.
If the motivation is to charge and punish City for financial breaches then you’re right, it’s inconceivable they would do this without a substantial level of evidence / justification.
If the motivation is to cause reputation damage to City at the behest of other parties then it becomes quite conceivable they would lay the charges without substantial evidence / justification.
I am not arguing there is no motivation or effort to damage reputation.
I am saying I don't believe they would go as far as they have just to do that, without thinking there is something there that is enough to stick.
I am basically arguing this idea that they Know they have nothing but are prepared to fail, just in an attempt to damage reputation. Or appease other clubs etc.
That's me. Others will disagree, and that's them.
What risk? In their minds they tried to hold City accountable but City would have used financial and legal might to escape "justice". If the result of losing their case meant their management group would be thrown one by one off a 10 story building then tell me about the risk of flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks...Why would the pl risk their reputation and their brand in going after City being cleared by CAS ?
Personally I believe City are 100% innocent but for the life of me cant understand why the pl would risk coming after City
Reading what's going on with other clubs and possible failing of the ffp soon all clubs will be under a 4 year investigation, starting with rags, arsenal, Chelsea, forest, etc.
The pl will run out of money having to employ all these financial experts and lawyers
Tossing some of those twisted fuckers off a rooftop actually sounds like a decent idea...
Spot on, your last sentence is exactly what Khaldoon said.evidence is irrelevant in this case, it was never about right or wrong it was purely a fishing expedition put in place by the pl at the behest of its favourite clubs to show that they could govern themselves and didnt need an independent regulator, all they sought to do was reputational damage to the club to mitigate the fact that they couldnt do things as well as us, they couldnt have an upstart club like us overtake them by being just purely well run and doing things the right way, nah couldnt have that so they had to make it look like we were the bad guys to mitigate their own failings, its a tale as old as time in some respects but much worse these days, it is the go to these days that instead of looking at your own failings its so much easier to blame someone else.
oakiecokie
Well-Known Member
.
Legacy clubs doing their best to hold on to their power but they are fighting a losing battle. Their agenda will soon be exposed, if not exposed already. The world is waking up to the BS. City beating these charges will expose what has been lurking underneath.
And you can guarantee that the ones doing the biggest bitching are those fuckers who have more too hide.
GaudinoMotors
Well-Known Member
What reputation is that then?Why would the pl risk their reputation and their brand in going after City being cleared by CAS ?
Personally I believe City are 100% innocent but for the life of me cant understand why the pl would risk coming after City
Reading what's going on with other clubs and possible failing of the ffp soon all clubs will be under a 4 year investigation, starting with rags, arsenal, Chelsea, forest, etc.
The pl will run out of money having to employ all these financial experts and lawyers
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
The cast of Stingray, Thunderbirds, etc?Who wants a job where you are just a puppet?
Rammy Blue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 May 2008
- Messages
- 32,074
They didn’t know there was anything concrete that would stick, that’s why they laid the charges so they could go on their fishing expedition and hope that some requested documents and files would unearth something juicy, which patently hasn’t happened otherwise it’d have been leaked by now.I am not arguing there is no motivation or effort to damage reputation.
I am saying I don't believe they would go as far as they have just to do that, without thinking there is something there that is enough to stick.
I am basically arguing this idea that they Know they have nothing but are prepared to fail, just in an attempt to damage reputation. Or appease other clubs etc.
That's me. Others will disagree, and that's them.
And you can guarantee that the ones doing the biggest bitching are those fuckers who have more too hide.
Simply ask all the clubs to open their account books for public viewing, let's see who will put the books on the table. Premier League and the FFP team are claiming we don't need to be regulated by the government and can keep our own house in order and keep it clean and control its clubs,
Ok let's open up from the start, Who makes the rules, Who are the controlling members, Let's do a full audit on the members and the clubs they are involved with first, That should be enough to see why they are protecting themselves and so-called giants of the game, The clubs that call the shots don't want a fair fight, They are handed it on plate and scared of anybody wanting to face up to them and dare to call them out,
They didn’t know there was anything concrete that would stick, that’s why they laid the charges so they could go on their fishing expedition and hope that some requested documents and files would unearth something juicy, which patently hasn’t happened otherwise it’d have been leaked by now.
Spot on
You think by now Manchester City would be punished before Everton
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
You are entitled to your opinion, and of course it’s perfectly possible you are right, but I’ve based my view on a combination of what we have before us evidentially and the absence of any leaks; the parties involved; the likelihood that the club committed fraud on this scale and for such an extended period, especially given the involvement of auditors; the putative absence of any whistleblowers to corroborate the allegations; the protagonists behind the scene - the power they wield, plus their tack record and motives; the pace at which matters have progressed; the noises coming via backchannels from the club; the continued trajectory of players coming to the club, further sponsorship from high profile investors and accelerated infrastructure investment; the previous UEFA charges (and their complete lack of substance) and the fact that Richard Masters is a **** - and concluded that this is the most likely explanationPeople keep saying this, to varying extremities.
But I just don't see how that can be the case, and I don't believe it.
To charge us to the extent they have, they Must have something to think they have enough and there is significant reaon there to do so.
Not saying it’s nailed on, but fwiw, I’m confident I’m likely to be correct.
I think the fact you believe there is some substance to these allegations based solely on the fact of the charges themselves is exactly what the PL (or rather those that have pressured them) want. As others have said before me, the punishment is the charges. And if a City fan thinks what you think, then it’s clearly working.
I think the fact you believe there is some substance to these allegations based solely on the fact of the charges themselves is exactly what the PL (or rather those that have pressured them) want. As others have said before me, the punishment is the charges. And if a City fan thinks what you think, then it’s clearly working.
That, is not at all what I said. And having read it back, it is pretty clear. The word 'think', is an important one.
They didn’t know there was anything concrete that would stick, that’s why they laid the charges so they could go on their fishing expedition and hope that some requested documents and files would unearth something juicy, which patently hasn’t happened otherwise it’d have been leaked by now.
As above, the words 'think', and 'know' are actually quite significant.
I am not a lawyer, but my take on the PL issuing 115 charges against us is because we have quite rightly deflected all their attempts to bully us into handing over information they are not entitled to have. Our lawyers will have been very clear. If you come after City it will be a bumpy ride. Defend every point and use every process available because this is a witch hunt. Ickle City should do as they are told, but we are not Ickle City anymore. We've been to the gym. We are streetwise. We will only give you what we need to give you. So, the PL have got very frustrated. They've no doubt also had some clubs of an antique variety trying to bend their ear. In short, the 115 charges is a great big fuck you to City. City will fight the charges very hard. Tooth and nail. As the song goes, 'City, Manchester City. We are the lads who are playing to win'. If the tribunal have no new information apart from the hacked Der Spiegel stuff we will be cleared. It's going to be a long wait. I'll put the kettle on.