Mr Bates vs the Post Office

ganganvince said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Tony Blair was warned Horizon IT system could be flawed, documents show - BBC News

The then-PM was told IT system now at the centre of the Post Office scandal was "possibly unreliable".
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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From that :-
‘In a letter dated 10 December 1998, Lord Mandelson said he believed the "only sensible choice" was to proceed with Horizon‘.

I would guess, with the benefit of hindsight, they’d have opted for another sensible option of ‘let’s just hang on and iron out the creases first, it could cause an absolute shitstorm further down the line if we don’t’’.
 
Amazing it took a TV show to sort the Post Office scandal out when the government did nothing.

Only in England, if this was Germany it would have been sorted at the time long before the damage had already been done.

Can we have a drama next week about water companies putting raw sewage into our rivers and seas every single day of the year, and then just maybe something will be done about that horrendous problem as well?.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Don’t see what the issue is with that. That wasn’t sufficient reason to stop its roll out. It’s what happened after it was rolled out that got progressively egregious.
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Not really, his approach was exactly the same as execs at the top of POL years later. They were both told that the system had bugs, errors and defects but rather than accept that they asked people to go away and asked them to come back with positives of the system this then became the narrative they pushed and acted on.
 
blueste41 said:
I remember Elaine's evidence well, she seemed to allude to the fact that that someone else had prepared her witness statement in a prosecution case and then fabricated her signature! When pushed on why she held that belief she said something along the lines of:-
"But I didn’t know anything about it. You would have thought that they would have at least
approached me about it. They must have wanted some input from me at that stage.”

You would have thought, right? But maybe dealing with Elaine Cottam in 2003 was as difficult as it appears to be in 2023. So maybe they just didn’t bother.

The world is full of thick-as-mince, malevolent incompetents like Elaine Cottam. The problems start when they are promoted into positions of power, as the Post Office appears to have done with multiple idiots on multiple occasions. I really hope the Met Police are taking note.
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It’s clear Elaine didn’t have any clue what the fuck was happening anywhere at any point in time. It seems the way her job worked was that people would bring her things to sign and she would sign them with no questions asked. In that aspect her staggering stupidity was an asset to the PO.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Does it strike anyone else as slightly convenient that the outcome of this looks like the financial ruin, closure or selling off of the post office/royal mail?
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Nowt to do with Royal Mail. Its already a private company.
PO can’t be ruined, it is govt owned so cannot go bankrupt.
We, the tax payer, will bear the costs.
 
Dirty Harry said:
From that :-
‘In a letter dated 10 December 1998, Lord Mandelson said he believed the "only sensible choice" was to proceed with Horizon‘.

I would guess, with the benefit of hindsight, they’d have opted for another sensible option of ‘let’s just hang on and iron out the creases first, it could cause an absolute shitstorm further down the line if we don’t’’.
Click to expand...

The sensible option would have been starting the software build from scratch rather than using "stick tape" and "super glue" methods to keep what had already been developed together.

I'm not a software engineer, have never written code other than basic commands following instructions for things like emulation with limited success. But I understand that computers can be wrong and it only takes a few things or even one thing to be wrong to throw a complex system out of sync.

If the software doesn't work with physical inputs, and the reality of existing technology infrastructure then it isn't a viable system.

An accounting system that needs IT to have a backdoor to correct the transactions records in real time just to keep it functioning isn't flawed, it's non viable.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
The sensible option would have been starting the software build from scratch rather than using "stick tape" and "super glue" methods to keep what had already been developed together.

I'm not a software engineer, have never written code other than basic commands following instructions for things like emulation with limited success. But I understand that computers can be wrong and it only takes a few things or even one thing to be wrong to throw a complex system out of sync.

If the software doesn't work with physical inputs, and the reality of existing technology infrastructure then it isn't a viable system.

An accounting system that needs IT to have a backdoor to correct the transactions records in real time just to keep it functioning isn't flawed, it's non viable.
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I wouldn’t even know where to start on the computer side of things if I’m being honest mate, I’m hopeless (ask TCIB if you don’t believe me :-D) but I’m sure what you say is another ‘sensible option’ without doubt.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
It’s clear Elaine didn’t have any clue what the fuck was happening anywhere at any point in time. It seems the way her job worked was that people would bring her things to sign and she would sign them with no questions asked. In that aspect her staggering stupidity was an asset to the PO.
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She won’t be an isolated example
 
Expert on Sky News this morning saying PO are being investigated for £100m tax underpayment. They inserted £900m for compensation matters due to the scandal into the accounts and claimed tax relief on it. They haven’t paid anything from the £900m. This is illegal
 
mosssideblue said:
Expert on Sky News this morning saying PO are being investigated for £100m tax underpayment. They inserted £900m for compensation matters due to the scandal into the accounts and claimed tax relief on it. They haven’t paid anything from the £900m. This is illegal
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There’s a lot more to come out from this and has high powered officials hurriedly seeking ways to cover their back.

Will we see those at the the very top brought to justice or will the details of their misdoings disappear into the ether?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Does it strike anyone else as slightly convenient that the outcome of this looks like the financial ruin, closure or selling off of the post office/royal mail?
Click to expand...

mosssideblue said:
Convenient to who?
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Yes who would benefit from POL not existing? They made £758 million pounds profit for it's sole shareholder (the government) las year.
For accuracy Royal Mail isn't part of the post office it's a private organisation and was sold by the government in 2015.
 
blueste41 said:
Yes who would benefit from POL not existing? They made £758 million pounds profit for it's sole shareholder (the government) las year.
For accuracy Royal Mail isn't part of the post office it's a private organisation and was sold by the government in 2015.
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Rather than not existing it will probably move into private ownership - just like the royal mail
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Rather than not existing it will probably move into private ownership - just like the royal mail
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Why would private investors or institutions want to acquire an organisation that didn't make a profit until it started stealing from its contractors and because of that scandal has goodwill at the level of a runny dog turd?

Is it even viable as a target for asset stripping?
 
blueste41 said:
I remember Elaine's evidence well, she seemed to allude to the fact that that someone else had prepared her witness statement in a prosecution case and then fabricated her signature! When pushed on why she held that belief she said something along the lines of:-
"But I didn’t know anything about it. You would have thought that they would have at least
approached me about it. They must have wanted some input from me at that stage.”

You would have thought, right? But maybe dealing with Elaine Cottam in 2003 was as difficult as it appears to be in 2023. So maybe they just didn’t bother.

The world is full of thick-as-mince, malevolent incompetents like Elaine Cottam. The problems start when they are promoted into positions of power, as the Post Office appears to have done with multiple idiots on multiple occasions. I really hope the Met Police are taking note.
Click to expand...

She struggled provided her career history. So much so when asked what year she started a job she couldn’t answer so he asked what decade & she still had no idea lol.

I fear that these fuckers will carry the can when it’s clear it’s from the CEO down. I’ve worked for CEOs where this culture was allowed & CEOs who would have smelt it & changed it.

It’s rotten from top to bottom.
 
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Mr Kobayashi said:
Why would private investors or institutions want to acquire an organisation that didn't make a profit until it started stealing from its contractors and because of that scandal has goodwill at the level of a runny dog turd?

Is it even viable as a target for asset stripping?
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Sadly it probably is. The counter services will probably be devolved 'parcel shop' style to local shops as a franchise or some other model.
 
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