PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[halfcenturyup]

In the late 1970s Peter Swales embarked on a period of very high, debt financed spending in an aim to make City the most glamorous and successful club in the land. The policy took time before it proved to be disastrous on the pitch and catastrophic off it. By the time we saw the full effects of the approach City were in the third tier and was surviving courtesy of the banks. Later we saw Leeds follow a similar approach to try and replace Manchester United as the country's leading club with possibly even more disastrous consequences. Loans were not guaranteed by an owner but secured on club assets. Nevertheless Leeds were dumped into the third tier and broke. There were no FFP or P&S regulations in place to stop either club's "kamikaze spending". The question is actually whether the regulations would have stopped either club's trolly dash and there is some doubt. Another point to make is that neither club went bust, both are still in business and in City's case .... Both appear to have been kept going by the normal mechanisms of the market. It is hard to see that the situation of either club would have been helped by a ten point deduction, or even more by repeated points deductions.

Many on here will reply that both City and Leeds relied on loans, on the great villain DEBT to finance their recklessness and this is true. And in the 1980s &1990s some clubs got into considerable trouble by taking out loans to finance ground improvements, most often new stands. Chelsea and Wolves were two that I remember and both suffered from it, Wolves spectacularly so, almost dropping out of the league. These are, however, projects requiring large capital investment and loans/debt has always been the obvious way to raise capital. Indeed FFP allows it subject to the proviso that the club can pay the interest on the loans. This is certainly not a ridiculous regulation but it is nullified to some extent by the proviso that this must be paid out of "normal" revenue, which excludes anything owners/shareholders might want to put in. Even before FFP was introduced a number of clubs built impressive new grounds and since their introduction Spurs have built a very impressive one. new stadia were certainly needed when the disgraceful standard of some was considered but whether FFP has made it easier or harder to finance is the question.

I think I want to put forward several points arising out of what I've written. The first is that FFP does not ban investment but it does limit it. It certainly doesn't ban debt but it insists that the interest must be paid out of "normal" revenue but limits the owner's ability to pay the interest severely. Many clubs find that their scope for improvement is severely constrained while others who thrived before the introduction of the regulations are left to spend, spend, spend and pile on the debt in the manner of Swales and Leeds! IF (and a big if) FFP had a noble aim I suspect it was to force clubs into good business practice. It hasn't done this. It has allowed clubs at the top when the regulations were introduced to spend and borrow more while the others find that however good their business model or however rich their owners their scope for improvement is limited. I can't think why UEFA and the PL have introduced such restrictive, protectionist regulations.

Yep. It's a real head-scratcher.

:)

 

[eyalluvitt]

It should have been ‘end of story’ …except Ceferin chose to give an interview where he brought it back to life. There are a 100 ways he could have batted the loaded questions away with no controversy but he chose to start the war again.

It’s lead to headlines in every media outlet and all the usual suspects having a feeding frenzy. Ffs even Rui Pinto has got involved !!!

I suspect it was all deliberate from Ceferin. He is currently changing rules to tru and allow him to stay on as head of UEFA which has led to his ally Bobin resigning today and causing chaos at UEFA. I’m sure the interview was all part of his big plan

Cerefin sounds like piles medication

 

[Centurions]

If Jordan and co had class they wouldn’t try to taint our hearing. It’s not just about the legalities mate.

It is about the legalities though as that's the only thing stopping them going for more clicks. Believe it or not, Jordan isn't a total moron.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Cerefin sounds like piles medication

Cherubim and Ceferin is where my brain takes me with his name.

 

[bluenova]

Cerefin sounds like piles medication

What does Ceferin* sound like?


*I am only smug because I spotted it wasn't Cerefin a whole day ago.

 

[Tb1981]

Let’s get it right
Jordan had changed his time since Stefan went into talksport a as max schooled him.

His backtracking is in full motion.
Now all of a sudden he thinks a back room deal will be done…..
what he means is basically that we will be cleared and his response can’t be that he was totally wrong so he will do what the I’ll educated rags and dippers on Twitter do - he will claim conspiracy

For the record if any deals get made it’s quite clearly because the premier league can win their case

 

[HelloCity]

It always amazes me just how much has been thrown at City compared to Chelsea.
I know Chelsea had it a bit, all the Chelski stuff etc, but it was nothing compared to what has been thrown & continues to be thrown at our club.
Even a **** like Abramovich got an easy side compared to our owner.

The major difference is that we’re in the same catchment area as United and Liverpool. Were major competition for them in terms of support in the north west.

 

[domalino]

Agree with you on Ceferin / UEFA but if you permit me to swim against the tide, I don't agree about FFP. This is a sport after all and it shouldn't just be the team with the most money winning everything (yes I know 'twas ever thus and that, at the moment, we have the "most" money).

The trick is balancing competition and sporting "hope" with sustainability, community asset protection and financial responsibility. It's a tremendously difficult issue and, personally, I have no answer. Except that there must be one :)

For me the fundamental issue with FFP or any financial controls is that if we have decided that money is the biggest factor in success, how can we accept a league where some teams have 10x the revenue and spending of others and pretend they are competitors?

How can it be “financial doping” - cheating - for Luton to spend as much as Arsenal of their owner decides he wants to?

It’s pretty clear that if you want parity on the pitch, you have to adopt a US system with revenue sharing and both minimum and maximum spending limits on squads.

The version of FFP we’ve been given is like playing snakes and ladders, but half way through the game the person at the front says “let’s get rid of some of the snakes, but also we’re getting rid of all the ladders”. Good luck catching up.

 

[ricky77]

Let’s get it right
Jordan had changed his time since Stefan went into talksport a as max schooled him.

His backtracking is in full motion.
Now all of a sudden he thinks a back room deal will be done…..
what he means is basically that we will be cleared and his response can’t be that he was totally wrong so he will do what the I’ll educated rags and dippers on Twitter do - he will claim conspiracy

For the record if any deals get made it’s quite clearly because the premier league can win their case

Was this today ? Jordan seemed full pelt on us having a case to answer as recent as yesterday. Has he had another backtrack ?

 

[waspish]

For me the fundamental issue with FFP or any financial controls is that if we have decided that money is the biggest factor in success, how can we accept a league where some teams have 10x the revenue and spending of others and pretend they are competitors?

How can it be “financial doping” - cheating - for Luton to spend as much as Arsenal of their owner decides he wants to?

It’s pretty clear that if you want parity on the pitch, you have to adopt a US system with revenue sharing and both minimum and maximum spending limits on squads.

The version of FFP we’ve been given is like playing snakes and ladders, but half way through the game the person at the front says “let’s get rid of some of the snakes, but also we’re getting rid of all the ladders”. Good luck catching up.

FFP brought in by the red shirts and the yanks because they know over time fans will be the sheep and you can read it see all now from fans saying PSR ffp next will be more of American type rules! Drip drip drip works!

 

[Elbow beards]

The major difference is that we’re in the same catchment area as United and Liverpool. Were major competition for them in terms of support in the north west.

I didn't know City were based in Oslo ;)

 

[citizen_maine]

It’s pretty clear that if you want parity on the pitch, you have to adopt a US system with revenue sharing and both minimum and maximum spending limits on squads.

This only works in the US though, because their franchises/teams don't operate in European/World markets too

 

[Pontypool Blue]

No other industry I know of places restrictions on self financed owner spending.

Self made successful builder uses overdraft to buy development land to build out and become more successful employing more labour.

His Federation doesn’t prevent him !!

A revolution is coming,started by CITY & I like it .

I don't think that analogy is accurate. the builder you describe is only in it to make profit and earn a living, however If the same builder was in it to win a 9 month competition with agreed rules against 19 other builders to see who could build the most houses that would be more accurate. (not withstanding that 3 or 4 in the competition were trying hard to change said rules so only they could win it every year)
That Said FFP was and is a crock of shit, even if the club who now benefits from it the most is now us as we have reached the top.

I believe changes will have to come now and Newcastle have the most to gain from ones that allow more spending. An announcement that the Barcodes are making a legal challenge to FFP coming soon you saw it here 1st.

 

[Centurions]

Was this today ? Jordan seemed full pelt on us having a case to answer as recent as yesterday. Has he had another backtrack ?

He'll change his tune again tomorrow, it's whatever drives the most clicks. Whoever listens to his drivel might as well as watch Love Island if you're in to made up fake shit. (sorry @kaz7 ;) )

 

[Bluesince1979]

What all these clubs signed up for with FFP is being the whipping boys for the established elite.

Never again will there be a blackburn, chelsea or manchester city fairy tale.

And under these rules there would never have been a liverpool fairy tale (moors family) , a united fairly tale(various sugar daddys), an arsenal fairytale (buying half the huddersfield team and poaching their manager) , an everton fairytale (moores family again) etc etc etc

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I respect your views but no business should be stopped from investing.

I would be more than happy to see some sort of wage cap in terms of percentage of turnover, players wages are out of hand and need sorting.

I disagree. Who should reap the rewards of the onfield success? Players & coaches or just the billionaire owners?

You are talking like a Yank owner, salivating over a salary & transfer cap, so THEY can bank more, rather than those sacrificing their bodies for it!

 

[Phoenix900000]

Let’s get it right
Jordan had changed his time since Stefan went into talksport a as max schooled him.

His backtracking is in full motion.
Now all of a sudden he thinks a back room deal will be done…..
what he means is basically that we will be cleared and his response can’t be that he was totally wrong so he will do what the I’ll educated rags and dippers on Twitter do - he will claim conspiracy

For the record if any deals get made it’s quite clearly because the premier league can win their case

I agree it's obvious he's setting himself up not to be wrong this whole time.

 

[kaz7]

He'll change his tune again tomorrow, it's whatever drives the most clicks. Whoever listens to his drivel might as well as watch Love Island if you're in to made up fake shit. (sorry @kaz7 ;) )

Ha, let you off . I stopped listening to talkshite when colin murray left so never heard jordan speak about us, just reading it on here is enough

 

[PeterBarnesShorts]

Momentum is definitely heading towards a change in FFP rules,they just need to find a way where any team can spend what they need,to compete with City,…and City are only allowed to invest the money that they make from the match day chips!That should keep them happy!…wankers.

 

[Roachy]

Was this today ? Jordan seemed full pelt on us having a case to answer as recent as yesterday. Has he had another backtrack ?

I saw a snippet from yesterday when he was giving us a going over, probably beyond anything I've heard from him before. He mentioned our clubs owners, image laundering, sports washing etc. It was disgraceful.