PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

roy.or.r said:
Maybe another stupid question but can’t we just show them what we have and then it won’t have to go to the courts?
Click to expand...

In any investigation, you only show the investigator exactly what they ask for as late as you possibly can, and only what the law (or in this case, the contract) says they are allowed to see. If you don't do that, you are opening yourself up to more and more questions about more and more topics. Especially if you don't trust the investigating body or, in this case, you feel you have been burnt previously by providing full disclosure on time which is then used against you or which has been leaked by the investigators.

There is no quick way around this, we have to be patient in the knowledge the club is happy (in a legal sense) with where it is.
 
LeonardoDaVnci said:
No were not operated like that, but it's fundamental to the never ending smear campaign that lies like that are repeated...

the reality is somewhat different...

e.g. From the MCFC Annual Report (2010-2011) [1], the Auditors BDO [2] stated this :-

"Opinion on financial statements

In our opinion the financial statements:

Give a true and fair view of the state of the Group’s and the Company’s affairs as at 31 May 2011 and of the Group’s loss for the year then ended;
Have been properly prepared in accordance with United Kingdom Generally Accepted Accounting Practice;
Have been prepared in accordance with the requirements of the Companies Act 2006."

So the PL are implicitly accusing BDO (world renowned auditors) of being either incompetent or complicit in false accounting. In addition they are implicitly accusing Etihad Airways accountants (KPMG and Deloitte) of being either incompetent or complicit in false accounting.
Click to expand...

I don’t think that is what the auditors are saying, or that their audit implies.

They track accounts and ensure accounting rules have been followed. The auditors would never know where any Euro comes from if ADUG was trying to hide it.

Audits uncover accounting errors and omissions, not that the money came from where ADUG said it came…if the numbers add up and the accounts all agree!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I don’t think that is what the auditors are saying, or that their audit implies.

They track accounts and ensure accounting rules have been followed. The auditors would never know where any Euro comes from if ADUG was trying to hide it.

Audits uncover accounting errors and omissions, not that the money came from where ADUG said it came…if the numbers add up and the accounts all agree!
Click to expand...

In the normal course of an audit yes. But an important point:

When matters come to light like the DS leaks, and a governing body finds the club guilty of, basically, fraud and misleading auditors, you can be sure the auditors would subsequently have followed up with management and increased the severity of their audit procedures. They would also certainly have received very specific confirmations from management and board that they have properly disclosed everything relevant in connection with UEFA's findings and, now, the PL allegations. Why? Because if the club had committed fraud and deceived the auditors, the auditors could fall back on their audit procedures as a defence. After the leaks and the UEFA charges, though, that would be no defence for the auditors. They would also be at heightened risk and, potentially, part of a criminal conspiracy..

That they still have given the accounts an unqualified opinion since 2018 means the auditors have satisfied themselves that the alleged matters are properly reflected in the accounts. Or, at least, they are satisfied to the extent that the allegations don't affect the true and fair view given by the accounts. Which, after all, is at the heart of the most serious allegations from the PL. If the Pl can't prove the accounts don't give a true and fair view, all that is left is some non-disclosures to the PL.
 
LeonardoDaVnci said:
No were not operated like that, but it's fundamental to the never ending smear campaign that lies like that are repeated...

the reality is somewhat different...

e.g. From the MCFC Annual Report (2010-2011) [1], the Auditors BDO [2] stated this :-

"Opinion on financial statements

In our opinion the financial statements:

Give a true and fair view of the state of the Group’s and the Company’s affairs as at 31 May 2011 and of the Group’s loss for the year then ended;
Have been properly prepared in accordance with United Kingdom Generally Accepted Accounting Practice;
Have been prepared in accordance with the requirements of the Companies Act 2006."

So the PL are implicitly accusing BDO (world renowed auditors) of being either incompetent or complicit in false accounting. In addition they are implicitly accusing Etihad Airways accountants (KPMG and Deloitte) of being either incompetent or complicit in false accounting.

Refs
www.cityfootballgroup.com

About City Football Group

Established in May 2013, the CFG approach ensures that every club remains authentic to its fans and community, plays entertaining football and benefits from being part of a global organisation that applies the world's best expertise on and off the pitch.
www.cityfootballgroup.com www.cityfootballgroup.com
www.bdo.co.uk

Audit & Assurance | External Audit | Risk Assurance | Report

Discover our range of Audit and Assurance services that you, your investors and shareholders can trust.
www.bdo.co.uk www.bdo.co.uk
Click to expand...
So of course, if it comes down to the balance of probabilities...simple Accounting principles would carry a hell of lot of weight here.

The possibility of one firm being wrong/dodgy in their operations?
Already very low, but a possibility as we have very occasionally seen.

Two? (There's a reason for the 'two sets of eyes' principle)
So ridiculously low as to be relied on as one of the foundations of GAAP themselves.

PL are pissing in the wind
 
halfcenturyup said:
In the normal course of an audit yes. But an important point:

When matters come to light like the DS leaks, and a governing body finds the club guilty of, basically, fraud and misleading auditors, you can be sure the auditors would subsequently have followed up with management and increased the severity of their audit procedures. They would also certainly have received very specific confirmations from management and board that they have properly disclosed everything relevant in connection with UEFA's findings and, now, the PL allegations. Why? Because if the club had committed fraud and deceived the auditors, the auditors could fall back on their audit procedures as a defence. After the leaks and the UEFA charges, though, that would be no defence for the auditors. They would also be at heightened risk and, potentially, part of a criminal conspiracy..

That they still have given the accounts an unqualified opinion since 2018 means the auditors have satisfied themselves that the alleged matters are properly reflected in the accounts. Or, at least, they are satisfied to the extent that the allegations don't affect the true and fair view given by the accounts. Which, after all, is at the heart of the most serious allegations from the PL. If the Pl can't prove the accounts don't give a true and fair view, all that is left is some non-disclosures to the PL.
Click to expand...
To a degree, I agree, but if the supposed fraud took place it would be in valuations that the auditor would accept at face value.

With the PL questioning some of those, the auditors would merely be assuring the monies were correctly accounted for, not their size.

Regardless, it’s all BS and there’s no chance City will get nailed for it!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
To a degree, I agree, but if the supposed fraud took place it would be in valuations that the auditor would accept at face value.

With the PL questioning some of those, the auditors would merely be assuring the monies were correctly accounted for, not their size.

Regardless, it’s all BS and there’s no chance City will get nailed for it!
Click to expand...

Without wishing to argue the point, not a chance. The auditor has two jobs. First, to make sure that, in their opinion, the accounts give a true and fair view. Second, to cover their arses so they don't get sued to kingdom come if their opinion turns out to be wrong. Not necessarily in that order.

As soon as the leaks came out, they would have been on the phone. And the very next audit would have been strengthened to make sure that, in their, opinion, notwithstanding the allegations, the accounts gave a true and fair view. They would absolutely have looked at the sourcing of the funds to pay the sponsorship, even if it was just accepting a specific and detailed confirmation from the management/board/owner. Clearly, in their view, whatever they did gave them enough comfort to continue giving unqualified audit reports. If they weren't satisfied, they would have qualified the accounts or, more likely, resigned as auditors.

Trust me on this one.
 
GaudinoMotors said:
Layman question and one that I'm sure will have been asked and answered.
If the PL amateur panel punish us - I know there's no appeal process - well, none worthy of the name, - but if we are absolutely adamant they are wrong and the finding is unjust and without evidence - can we sue for defamation and reputational damage that such a finding and the months of conjecture will have caused? In effect we take it into a legal sphere.
Click to expand...
I posted this a few pages back, Newport & a couple of other clubs appealed in 'proper' courts against the Welsh FA under restraint of trade and won.

Now this wasn't centered around financial matters however, they took what I assume are a organisation with their own self governing rules to court and had the verdict over turned.

FAW loses court case

The High Court in London yesterday ruled in favour of three non- League clubs - Newport AFC, Caernarfon Town and Colwyn Bay- in their challenge to the Football Association of Wales, writes Rupert Metcalf.
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
BlueMonkey79 said:
Tried having this conversation with a rag the other day. He was giving it the big one.

I asked him "go on then what have we apparently commited"

He spouted off "fraud, disguised sponsorships, back handers" etc...

I then said "why haven't the authorities like Inland revenue, Police and other government officials been notified if it's as serious as what you are saying"?

His response "its got nowt do with them" ..

I walked off shaking my head.
Click to expand...
Next time tell him to report us to the nearest copper :)
 
Centurions said:
Out of interest, how many people do you think would be a suitable number to ruin a £5billion company?
Click to expand...

Not 3, It's such a huge organisation with serious allegations against multiple company's and high ranking people that imo it should be held in the courts. I'm well aware of the PL rules and this is the only path to go down. Actually it only needs Two of the Three.
 
In the last 20 years the PL have received 400 sets of Amnual accounts from member clubs. These accounts are also filed with Companies House. Our accounts are micro scrutinised for absolutely anything that might imply financial wrong doing. Our accounts appear to record the annual total of all sponsorship funds received in the FY, ie they do NOT provide detailed breakdowns, eg sender of funds, date of transactions, the banks involved.
So what is the required level of detail required by the PL ? eg do the LFC accounts provide a very high level of resolution in terms of received sponsorship funds ?.

It seems to me that we are being required to report to a far higher level of resolution than any other club.

Let's be aving you...
So for example, assume the Norfolk Turkey Companay sponsor the super Canaries. If we looked at the Norwich accounts for one year and demanded precise details of how, when, why funds received from the Norfolk Turkey company ended up in the Norwich accounts. And let's say it transpires one of the directors of the Turkey company was a cousin of Delia Smith. Bingo ! false accounting, disguised equity funding, throw the book at them.
 
Last edited:
The blue phantom said:
Not 3, It's such a huge organisation with serious allegations against multiple company's and high ranking people that imo it should be held in the courts.
Click to expand...
It seems that the new football bill is promoting that bit. To have an independent organization overseeing clubs and leagues instead of letting the league do self governing. And PL and clubs do not like it. It means more disclosure of business informations and subject to more strict rules.
 
Again the word "Fraud" being mentioned when talking about Sheikh Mansour and the CFG.

Really is amazing to believe that for that someone at the Premier League pointing this accusation that the penny hasn't dropped for them.

Can't stop laughing.
 
LeonardoDaVnci said:
In the last 20 years the PL have received 400 sets of Amnual accounts from member clubs. These accounts are also filed with Companies House. Our accounts are micro scrutinised for absolutely anything that might imply financial wrong doing. Our accounts appear to record the annual total of all sponsorship funds received in the FY, ie they do NOT provide detailed breakdowns, eg sender of funds, date of transactions, the banks involved.
So what is the required level of detail required by the PL ? eg do the LFC accounts provide a very high level of resolution in terms of received sponsorship funds ?.

It seems to me that we are being required to report to a far higher level of resolution than any other club.

So for example if we looked at the Norwich accounts for one year and demanded precise details of how, when, why funds received from the Norfolk Turkey company ended up in the Norwich accounts. And let's say it transpires one of the directors of the Turkey company was a cousin of Delia Smith ! Bingo false accounting, disguised equity funding, throw the book at them.
Click to expand...
was it fair value for Norwich though?
 
GaudinoMotors said:
Layman question and one that I'm sure will have been asked and answered.
If the PL amateur panel punish us - I know there's no appeal process - well, none worthy of the name, - but if we are absolutely adamant they are wrong and the finding is unjust and without evidence - can we sue for defamation and reputational damage that such a finding and the months of conjecture will have caused? In effect we take it into a legal sphere.
Click to expand...

correct, only appeal process is infront of another PL panel.

No court etc.
 
LeonardoDaVnci said:
No were not operated like that, but it's fundamental to the never ending smear campaign that lies like that are repeated...

the reality is somewhat different...

e.g. From the MCFC Annual Report (2010-2011) [1], the Auditors BDO [2] stated this :-

"Opinion on financial statements

In our opinion the financial statements:

Give a true and fair view of the state of the Group’s and the Company’s affairs as at 31 May 2011 and of the Group’s loss for the year then ended;
Have been properly prepared in accordance with United Kingdom Generally Accepted Accounting Practice;
Have been prepared in accordance with the requirements of the Companies Act 2006."

So the PL are implicitly accusing BDO (world renowed auditors) of being either incompetent or complicit in false accounting. In addition they are implicitly accusing Etihad Airways accountants (KPMG and Deloitte) of being either incompetent or complicit in false accounting.

Refs
www.cityfootballgroup.com

About City Football Group

Established in May 2013, the CFG approach ensures that every club remains authentic to its fans and community, plays entertaining football and benefits from being part of a global organisation that applies the world's best expertise on and off the pitch.
www.cityfootballgroup.com www.cityfootballgroup.com
www.bdo.co.uk

Audit & Assurance | External Audit | Risk Assurance | Report

Discover our range of Audit and Assurance services that you, your investors and shareholders can trust.
www.bdo.co.uk www.bdo.co.uk
Click to expand...
1706607997905.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top