PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

halfcenturyup said:
Without wishing to argue the point, not a chance. The auditor has two jobs. First, to make sure that, in their opinion, the accounts give a true and fair view. Second, to cover their arses so they don't get sued to kingdom come if their opinion turns out to be wrong. Not necessarily in that order.

As soon as the leaks came out, they would have been on the phone. And the very next audit would have been strengthened to make sure that, in their, opinion, notwithstanding the allegations, the accounts gave a true and fair view. They would absolutely have looked at the sourcing of the funds to pay the sponsorship, even if it was just accepting a specific and detailed confirmation from the management/board/owner. Clearly, in their view, whatever they did gave them enough comfort to continue giving unqualified audit reports. If they weren't satisfied, they would have qualified the accounts or, more likely, resigned as auditors.

Trust me on this one.
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Facts...
 
Iassel said:
No they are not.

Auditors only review what is put infront of them.
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They arent no but a negative verdict could reflect badly on the auditors

If you think they just look at what is "put in front" of them then you clearly don't have a clue as to what they do and are responsible for

Here are just a part of their duty

Part extract from

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...heading/duties-and-rights-of-auditors/enacted

Duties of auditor​

(1)A company’s auditor, in preparing his report, must carry out such investigations as will enable him to form an opinion as to—

(a)whether adequate accounting records have been kept by the company and returns adequate for their audit have been received from branches not visited by him, and

(b)whether the company’s individual accounts are in agreement with the accounting records and returns, and

(c)in the case of a quoted company, whether the auditable part of the company’s directors' remuneration report is in agreement with the accounting records and returns.

(2)If the auditor is of the opinion—

(a)that adequate accounting records have not been kept, or that returns adequate for their audit have not been received from branches not visited by him, or

(b)that the company’s individual accounts are not in agreement with the accounting records and returns, or

(c)in the case of a quoted company, that the auditable part of its directors' remuneration report is not in agreement with the accounting records and returns,

the auditor shall state that fact in his report.

(3)If the auditor fails to obtain all the information and explanations which, to the best of his knowledge and belief, are necessary for the purposes of his audit, he shall state that fact in his report.

(4)If—

(a)the requirements of regulations under section 412 (disclosure of directors' benefits: remuneration, pensions and compensation for loss of office) are not complied with in the annual accounts, or

(b)in the case of a quoted company, the requirements of regulations under section 421 as to information forming the auditable part of the directors' remuneration report are not complied with in that report,

the auditor must include in his report, so far as he is reasonably able to do so, a statement giving the required particulars.

(5)If the directors of the company have prepared accounts and reports in accordance with the small companies regime and in the auditor’s opinion they were not entitled so to do, the auditor shall state that fact in his report.
 
mancboy said:
assuming that is the same as assuming the police say well he said he hasnt done it so we'll just leave it there
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Exactly this. That said, there are ways to manipulate auditors and justify certain accounting treatments that, maybe, could be questionable. Back in the day the French/Swiss group I was working for had a pretty unknown French audit company that the holding company had used for generations. We were their only big account. They didn't want to lose us and so were happy to accept some of our more "creative" accounting. As the group grew we needed an international firm to audit the overseas subsidiaries so C&L, my old employer, were brought in as joint auditors. But they were kept well away from the more "sensitive" areas. At the end of the day, auditing is based on risk assessment: the higher the risk, the more evidence is required and the more severe the audit tests. We always pushed the limits, but never went over them (well, not much, anyway). We had great fun playing them off against each other, though :)

Long story, but my point was this: auditing is based on risk analysis and being investigated by governing bodies and, in the case of UEFA, being found guilty, raises the risk a hundredfold. There is no way the auditors are just accepting what is put in front of them in that situation. They will want to know what is going on and how it affects the true and fair view given. If they aren't convinced by the explanations and information provided by the management/board and they feel the issue affects the true and fair view given by the accounts then they qualify their opinion or resign. True of C&L in our case if they didn't like our creative accounting and felt it impacted on the view given by the accounts, and true of BDO in City's case.

Clearly, BDO think there either is nothing in these allegations, or that there is something in them but they don't change their view on the true and fair view given by the accounts.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Ah, the old adage about auditors. Treat them like mushrooms ....
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Having spent a depressingly long time both being a Deloitte auditor and now being an auditee in my life, in this specific case it’s clear there is no finger being pointed at BDO.

The PLs underlying accusation is ultimately that some of the contracts City hold/held were only functional on paper and were just a vehicle for SM to pump equity money in.

BDO will have been presented a signed contract and seen funds coming into the bank and moved on. They may have even asked City the route of funds (unlikely) which as was seen at CAS there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for, so BDO not flagging any concerns doesn’t infer anything about them.
 
Iassel said:
It would be a minimum of 6 people - if City appealed, a new panel would be formed to hear that appeal.

Whether it’s 6,3 or even 1 is irrelevant though - these are serious people forming the panel and are not going to find in the PLs favour unless they prevent something explosive that City can’t defend.

But even if we examine the reality of a kangaroo court as people constantly panic about, say that what City put up is truly incontrovertible and the panel finds against the club anyway - off the record, City would be fucking delighted as it’s basically the only route outside of the PL environment to an external court which is where the club have always argued this should be handled.
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Makes sense. But do you have proof or evidence of our owners saying that?
 
Stoned Rose said:
Crazy scenes mate? Do tell……
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Suicides, leaking brains, strip clubs, flirting with clients, all-night Amsterdam drinking, testifying at US enquiry, great people, stupid people, learning priority to the right in Holland, flirting with French teachers, trying to get in Danish junior's knickers, inevitably marrying a secretary, taking the world's most beautiful (non-English speaking) coffee girl out for lunch, FDs who testified against the Krays, dating his 6 foot 4 inch daughter, taking the punk receptionist out for lunch, luxury hotels in London, Paris, Munich, Madrid, Milan, LA, NY, Miami, HK, Tokyo, Singapore, Hippopotamus, learning how to spell separate, Sun Tzu, French arseholes, Swiss arseholes, South African arseholes, minuting French board meetings, cricket in Holland, Indonesian secretaries. Just a few. Choose one :)
 
Iassel said:
Having spent a depressingly long time both being a Deloitte auditor and now being an auditee in my life, in this specific case it’s clear there is no finger being pointed at BDO.

The PLs underlying accusation is ultimately that some of the contracts City hold/held were only functional on paper and were just a vehicle for SM to pump equity money in.

BDO will have been presented a signed contract and seen funds coming into the bank and moved on. They may have even asked City the route of funds (unlikely) which as was seen at CAS there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for, so BDO not flagging any concerns doesn’t infer anything about them.
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That I can agree with.
 
Gary James said:
When Utd and LFC had their match fixing scandal United's solicitor was on the panel investigating United! He found the club did nothing wrong and never bothered to interview key people because he 'trusted them'. Football hey?

I go into a lot of detail about it in an article I wrote a while back for subscribers to my website:
gjfootballarchive.com

Match Fixing – Manchester United v Liverpool: A Long Read

Liverpool and Manchester United meet this weekend (17th January 2021) in the Premier League. It's a game that throughout the modern era has been played between two major clubs, hoping for success. This has not always been the case of course and in 1914-15 a notorious game between the two teams...
gjfootballarchive.com gjfootballarchive.com
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wow i never knew that
 
halfcenturyup said:
Suicides, leaking brains, strip clubs, flirting with clients, all-night Amsterdam drinking, testifying at US enquiry, great people, stupid people, learning priority to the right in Holland, flirting with French teachers, trying to get in Danish junior's knickers, inevitably marrying a secretary, taking the world's most beautiful (non-English speaking) coffee girl out for lunch, FDs who testified against the Krays, dating his 6 foot 4 inch daughter, taking the punk receptionist out for lunch, luxury hotels in London, Paris, Munich, Madrid, Milan, LA, NY, Miami, HK, Tokyo, Singapore, Hippopotamus, learning how to spell separate, Sun Tzu, French arseholes, Swiss arseholes, South African arseholes, minuting French board meetings, cricket in Holland, Indonesian secretaries. Just a few. Choose one :)
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Hippopotamus
 
GaudinoMotors said:
Hippopotamus
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It's not what you think. :)

We had a training session with all partners and managers just outside Paris and, having been married for about 10/20 years each, the partners wanted to go to a show in Paris. So, many taxis and a good few beers in Paris later, we were walking to the Hippopotamus cabaret show (bare-boobed cabaret obviously) and, asking the senior Dutch partner where we were going, he said Hippo po TA mus (tbf that's how you say it in Dutch), rather than Hippo POT amus. Trust me, after a few beers it was funny. 20 partners and managers walking drunk in Paris giggling like schoolgirls stayed with me. Show was fine, but being unmarried, I was more interested in Dutch girl's real available boobs. He was OK, the senior partner, though, took it in good spirits, and let me take a white Opel Manta GTE with black windows and a black sunroof as a company car. Until he actually saw it, then he told me to park it around the corner away from the clients when I was visiting :)
 
halfcenturyup said:
Suicides, leaking brains, strip clubs, flirting with clients, all-night Amsterdam drinking, testifying at US enquiry, great people, stupid people, learning priority to the right in Holland, flirting with French teachers, trying to get in Danish junior's knickers, inevitably marrying a secretary, taking the world's most beautiful (non-English speaking) coffee girl out for lunch, FDs who testified against the Krays, dating his 6 foot 4 inch daughter, taking the punk receptionist out for lunch, luxury hotels in London, Paris, Munich, Madrid, Milan, LA, NY, Miami, HK, Tokyo, Singapore, Hippopotamus, learning how to spell separate, Sun Tzu, French arseholes, Swiss arseholes, South African arseholes, minuting French board meetings, cricket in Holland, Indonesian secretaries. Just a few. Choose one :)
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And now a main contributor to Bluemoons FFP thread.
Where does the excitement end for you;-)
 
Can somebody post a link to PB's 2 part article about the 115 charges. I can't find it. Thanks
 
halfcenturyup said:
It's not what you think. :)

We had a training session with all partners and managers just outside Paris and, having been married for about 10/20 years each, the partners wanted to go to a show in Paris. So, many taxis and a good few beers in Paris later, we were walking to the Hippopotamus cabaret show (bare-boobed cabaret obviously) and, asking the senior Dutch partner where we were going, he said Hippo po TA mus (tbf that's how you say it in Dutch), rather than Hippo POT amus. Trust me, after a few beers it was funny. 20 partners and managers walking drunk in Paris giggling like schoolgirls stayed with me. Show was fine, but being unmarried, I was more interested in Dutch girl's real available boobs. He was OK, the senior partner, though, took it in good spirits, and let me take a white Opel Manta GTE with black windows and a black sunroof as a company car. Until he actually saw it, then he told me to park it around the corner away from the clients when I was visiting :)
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I always think of Reggie Perrin
 
halfcenturyup said:
Suicides, leaking brains, strip clubs, flirting with clients, all-night Amsterdam drinking, testifying at US enquiry, great people, stupid people, learning priority to the right in Holland, flirting with French teachers, trying to get in Danish junior's knickers, inevitably marrying a secretary, taking the world's most beautiful (non-English speaking) coffee girl out for lunch, FDs who testified against the Krays, dating his 6 foot 4 inch daughter, taking the punk receptionist out for lunch, luxury hotels in London, Paris, Munich, Madrid, Milan, LA, NY, Miami, HK, Tokyo, Singapore, Hippopotamus, learning how to spell separate, Sun Tzu, French arseholes, Swiss arseholes, South African arseholes, minuting French board meetings, cricket in Holland, Indonesian secretaries. Just a few. Choose one :)
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erm, can we get either Leaking Brains or the Danish Junior please.
 
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