Russian invasion of Ukraine

Iassel said:
The facts of nato troops being on the ground was confirmed by the Germans a few weeks back….

The rest as said is my opinion - namely that it’s phenomenally naive to believe that as the weapons being provided become more and more sophisticated, increased numbers of western troops are on the ground in support and maintenance roles.

As posted on her months ago, the feasibility study on Gripen for example is not only on training and usage but also on ability to provide maintenance.
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First of all, the German leak "content" was from Russian sources. Nothing was confirmed from German sources about the content.
Second, western "weapons advisors" have been in the Ukraine from the very beginning. This is not new news.
I have no doubt that that western powers have been helping with tactics and targets advice.
Special forces from around the world may also be conducting operations. But to date, there has been no evidence that this has been in actual combat situations.

Your post was implying there was a secret build up of NATO military personnel in the Ukraine for eventual conflict.
Where is your (non Russian) proof of this?
NATO is a defence alliance. Until a NATO member is directly threatened, there will not be "troops on the ground" in the Ukraine.
I'm not being naïve either. The lengths we have gone to not escalate things, has so far prevented this.

Personally, i wish there was a build up of troops. No scrap that, i think we should all be there supporting the Ukraine to repel the invaders. As long as we stop at the original 2009 borders, i don't think Putin would have the balls to do anything.
Russia has no right for what they have done. So many innocent lives have been lost to feed the ego of a maniac.
If we allow this to continue, it shows we haven't learnt a thing from the second world war.
 
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Macron....

“We negotiated as best we could, the Minsk agreements, and other stories, but there’s nothing to discuss with Russia, Ukraine must win. French troops will be in Ukraine. There will be no red lines. I am the president of this country called France, and I decide.”

Slava Ukraini.
 
SPIDERBOY said:
Macron....

“We negotiated as best we could, the Minsk agreements, and other stories, but there’s nothing to discuss with Russia, Ukraine must win. French troops will be in Ukraine. There will be no red lines. I am the president of this country called France, and I decide.”

Slava Ukraini.
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What’s Macron’s game?
 
More here...

In a live interview on French Television President Emmanuel Macron explained the situation in Ukraine to the French people.

“We will no longer have security” in Europe if Russia “wins” in Ukraine, he stated.

“Our responsibility is to be strong for peace."

“For 10 years, Russia has launched a war of aggression against Ukraine,” explains the head of state, adding that Europe has “done everything” for peace.

The Moscow regime decided “on its own” to launch “a complete war,” he continues. “We have one objective: Russia cannot and must not win this war,” launched Emmanuel Macron.

“If Russia wins this war, Europe's credibility would be reduced to zero."

“Do you think that the Poles, the Lithuanians, the Estonians, the Romanians, the Bulgarians could remain in peace for a second [in the event of a Russian victory in Ukraine]?, asks Emmanuel Macron.

"We will no longer have security” in Europe if Russia “wins” in Ukraine.

“The security of Europe and the security of the French are at stake there [in Ukraine]"

“To have peace in Ukraine, you must not be weak”

"If things escalate, it would be Russia's responsibility."

“The President of the [French] Republic is in charge of national defense,” said the head of state, asked about the possibility of sending troops to Ukraine, describing the conflict in Ukraine as an “existential war”.

He repeats once again not to “exclude anything”, even if “we are not in this situation today.”

"If things should degenerate, it would once again only be Russia’s responsibility.”
 
Scottyboi said:
More here...

In a live interview on French Television President Emmanuel Macron explained the situation in Ukraine to the French people.

“We will no longer have security” in Europe if Russia “wins” in Ukraine, he stated.

“Our responsibility is to be strong for peace."

“For 10 years, Russia has launched a war of aggression against Ukraine,” explains the head of state, adding that Europe has “done everything” for peace.

The Moscow regime decided “on its own” to launch “a complete war,” he continues. “We have one objective: Russia cannot and must not win this war,” launched Emmanuel Macron.

“If Russia wins this war, Europe's credibility would be reduced to zero."

“Do you think that the Poles, the Lithuanians, the Estonians, the Romanians, the Bulgarians could remain in peace for a second [in the event of a Russian victory in Ukraine]?, asks Emmanuel Macron.

"We will no longer have security” in Europe if Russia “wins” in Ukraine.

“The security of Europe and the security of the French are at stake there [in Ukraine]"

“To have peace in Ukraine, you must not be weak”

"If things escalate, it would be Russia's responsibility."

“The President of the [French] Republic is in charge of national defense,” said the head of state, asked about the possibility of sending troops to Ukraine, describing the conflict in Ukraine as an “existential war”.

He repeats once again not to “exclude anything”, even if “we are not in this situation today.”

"If things should degenerate, it would once again only be Russia’s responsibility.”
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Macron has gone up in my estimation. Time the UK started to seriously increase defense spending.
 
cleavers said:
Has macron done that ?

macron is only interested in macron imho, he once seemed like a breath of fresh air in euro politics, he now seems to me like same old same old.
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I don't know if he has, I just believe that the UK should. The way you stand up to
agression is with might. Not cutting your defense budget and armed forces. As far as im aware there is no point in history where the latter has ended in favourable circumstances.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I don't know if he has, I just believe that the UK should. The way you stand up to
agression is with might. Not cutting your defense budget and armed forces. As far as im aware there is no point in history where the latter has ended in favourable circumstances.
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I don't disagree, but government spending has to be balanced, and right now I think we're doing all we can to spread the share sadly, and that's from someone who works in support of defence.
 
From Ukraine, Putin and Russia would have a staging point for every Eastern European nation, backed by the possession of one of the largest wheat producing nations on earth.

He's previously stated his intentions to see the "return" of the former Soviet occupied nations, it's not an 'invention' of the West to try and bring ourselves closer to conflict with Russia. Ukraine falls, the rest of Europe will find itself at war. Nobody should be deluded about that. Ukraine's fight is all our fight, yet they're the ones making the larger sacrifices.
 
cleavers said:
I don't disagree, but government spending has to be balanced, and right now I think we're doing all we can to spread the share sadly, and that's from someone who works in support of defence.
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We spent 4% of GDP during the Cold War, that is what we should be ramping up to now.
 
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