Russian invasion of Ukraine

Will Putin be distracted from the war by winning his election weeks ago with 97.5% of the vote and 100% turnout.
 
Delboy352 said:
Trouble is that defence costs have spiralled due to 2 x Carriers and the aircraft for them, plus next gen weapons. In the old days, it was tanks and boots on the ground etc. What it cost for 1 of the carriers would have probably kept the old armed forces of the 70’s going for 5 years or more but nowadays, no chance. Add to that, try getting more people to join the forces if they think there’s a chance we will be fighting Russia and you’d be lucky. I speak as someone who was in for 22 yrs and got out in ‘97. I’m sure that NATO is learning from what is happening currently and training on drones/EW will be on the up…this will negate the need for so many troops, but they will always be needed, as will the US. Whatever we think, we can’t do it without them. I’m hoping for some sane minds over there to pull his plug instead of leading them into nuclear oblivion…
Click to expand...
The MOD and government needs to start to focus on resource availability. As a force the military is very capable but it is extremely under-resourced. We have excellent aircraft, ships, tanks etc but we don't have enough of them and are thin on numbers of people who can operate them. You can't build all of these things in a matter of months if anything was to happen.

People need good housing, food, training, PPE, clothing and they need to be paid properly. Recruitment and retention has become a huge problem because all of the above have been eroded over the years. Anyone whose been in the forces will now be thinking why am I slogging it out on tours being paid crap and then potentially being sent to war when I can work from home permanently and get paid double in the private sector?

I don't realistically think that war with NATO will happen over Ukraine. I think more will come down to Russian politics and their own exit strategy from this above all else. Putin always tries to appear strong however he isn't stupid, the real question comes down to his sanity...
 
Urgent warning for Belgorod residents!

"Over the next hour, a massive attack will be carried out on military targets in the city of Belgorod.

We urge local residents to immediately go to safe shelters and not go out until the attack is over.

Spread this message to Belgorod residents - help save the lives of fellow countrymen."

Sincerely, Legion "Freedom of Russia", Russian Volunteer Corps, Siberian Battalion.
 
SPIDERBOY said:
Possibly,but as i posted yesterday,they was not allowing no evacuations.
And the above post states "military targets"
Sounds arsey that,but its not mate.

Slava Ukraini.
Click to expand...

It happened yesterday.



Was nothing really. And the Freedom of Russia Legion opened an evac corridor last night to let people leave it is now closed whilst they do what they do.
 
So who are these "Good Russians" that are fighting against Putin?

What do we know about them and how influential they might be?
 
Metal Biker said:
So who are these "Good Russians" that are fighting against Putin?

What do we know about them and how influential they might be?
Click to expand...

They have been fighting against putin for a long time, full of all kinds of people some no doubt unsavoury types. They go over the border every now and again and carry out exercises. Personally don't think they will start a revolution they are too small, but it does make putin look bad I suppose that he cannot keep control of them.

Loads of vids and info in this reddit about them. https://www.reddit.com/r/FreedomofRussia/new/
 
Last edited:
Thought I would take this post from the Donald Trump thread to this one to avoid further hijacking discussion about how much of a **** the orange despotic moron is.

Shrimp said:
It's there in plenty of detail if you look into it GDM.
I respect you as a poster, I wouldn't lie about something as serious as this. However, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't stick my head above the parapet, and call this out.
The agreement was set in place at a moment in history that was termed "The end of the Cold War".
Any one of 5 countries could have vetoed any specific detail to derail things, but not one of them did. They were all happy to sign. The trouble is, The American Industrial War Complex, is only interested in profits. The people that are driving this don't give a shit about Europe or its population, because they are out of harm's way in splendid isolation.
Trust me, look for the information and you will find it. If the late John Pilger is on the record with it, that should be proof enough.
Enjoy the remainder of the football season & Up The Blues !
Click to expand...
Luddite_Blue said:
Here there's numerous documents showing security assurances against eastwards NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner:


NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents
nsarchive.gwu.edu nsarchive.gwu.edu
Click to expand...
Shrimp said:
Thank you so much Luddite Blue. It's frustrating being my age and not knowing how to use the tools of a computer properly. I knew I was telling the truth, so the mass opprobrium was like water off a ducks back.
Hopefully some our 'keyboard warriors' will take some time to educate themselves ?
Thanks again and enjoy what remains of the season.
Click to expand...
flook said:
Interesting stuff, however this is all in reference to assurances given to the Soviet Union, in part to placate the fear of NATO influencing the breakup of the Soviet Union, an action which came about from internal forces not external.

As the Soviet Union no longer exists, then there can be no threat to that union by NATO expansion, nor can there be a breach of any such assurances.

Now obviously you are equating Russia with the Soviet Union, and I could have some sympathy with that view if it weren't for the following:

1 - former SU countries are now self governing and self determining, and as such free to make application to join NATO (or even the Tufty Club if they so wish) which many have done.
2 - NATO have not (to my knowledge) courted such applications, and have rather the opposite approach and made the membership process quite onerous
3 - Expecting NATO to stand by commitments to a non-existent state whilst blatantly breaking their (Russias) own covenant to Ukraine made as part of the denuclearisation of Ukraine is a little bit cheeky
4 - Putin is a war-mongering ****
Click to expand...

I was coming on to point out that the Soviet Union no longer exists, so the assurances (not legally binding commitments, none such ever existed) of no eastern NATO expansion to that entity are not only null and void in principle, but for the security of Europe and protection of the sovereignty of the independent states that once comprised the Soviet Union, they needed to be wholly ignored as soon as Putin came to power, as he has actually violated numerous legally binding agreements, treaties, settlements, international laws, and the sovereignty of several independent European states since the early days of his reign on his quest for the reformation of a new Soviet Union in his kleptocratic, authoritarian vision.

Arguing that NATO should ignore independent state interest (and outright application) to join the defence organization over the past 20 years or so because of assurances made to a defunct nation that once possessed the territory in which those independent states now exist is like saying Great Britain and France should have ignored Hitler invading Poland because Warmia and Masuria was once part of East Prussia, the Treaty of Versailles was signed, and earlier appeasement from Chamberlain and Daladier. The fact that political analysts and historians liken Putin's 2008 invasion of Georgia to Hitler's annexing of Sudetenland as the "green light" signal that Europe was weak and could not functionally oppose further territorially expansion should give one pause whenever one tries to make the "NATO is the aggressor argument".

But @flook beat me to it with his excellent post.
 
Where does this all end, we have two very different ideologies West and East, Russia is basically run by a Mafia type, they will never give up power, anyone who challenges or even gets into power will fall out of a window in the end as those “gangs “ would see their power diminish if they went towards a western style democracy. On the other side how many times have the west tried regime change to better a country and it’s worked? Look at Iraq, Afghanistan and many countries the USA have been involved with in Central America.
I do wonder what the world will become in the next 5/10 years, many haven’t got a pot to piss in these days (compared to a few years ago) the rich and the powerful keep getting rich and powerful and everyone else’s existence seems to be an inconvenience to them. You only have to look at our own Houses of Parliament to see a bunch of self serving fuckers who argue like children whilst achieving very little. I do worry for my daughter’s future but what the fuck can you do? The ballot box these days is pointless, we just seem to be heading towards the inevitable, the world is on self destruct, Cold War almost seems a blessing these days.
 
Stuff:
www.dailykos.com

Russian stuff blowing up: Russians vote in sham election

Russia hit Odessa with missiles in a double-tap attack, killing at least 20 people and injuring at least 73. A double-tap attack — sending a second missile later to kill first responders — is nothing more than terrorism. One of the dead is a paramedic,...
www.dailykos.com

The 2 Patriot missile launchers confirmed destroyed earlier in the week.
 
From "The Analyst":

NUKES IN BELARUS, FRENCH IN ODESA, LIBERATION FORCES IN RUSSIA

President Putin’s upcoming automated re-election has inspired a great deal of external tinkering. The liberation brigades once again are making a huge splash in the border zones, which the Russians are far from containing even though they eventually will force a withdrawal that we all know is already planned. The mayhem it causes while it’s happening is entirely the point of the operation.
France has approved the security agreement with Ukraine and is now seriously talking of sending troops to Odesa within a year. The point of this is to internationalise the port to allow grain exports to continue by sea without the relentless attacks by Russian drones - many nations - most of them in Africa depend on that grain and it’s about securing that export chain.
It also has another point. Moldovan politicians are either pro Russian or pro western and Russian interference in the country has been relentless.
This has been largely due to its previous interference and effective occupation of the slither of territory known as Transnistria. Their troops are still there, mostly garrisoning a huge weapons depot that sits right on the Ukraine border.
They have been stuck there since the war began unable to leave or be rotated. Moldovan opposition leaders have recently been to Moscow begging for help. There have even been rumours that Russia would mount an airborne assault on Moldova from Crimea - but that’s verging on the ludicrous - Moldova is under constant NATO AWACS surveillance and NATO air forces patrol very close by. And the Ukrainians would know and they wouldn’t stand by and let it happen.
Besides which the Russian VDV is not what it was! And the Air Force is hardly in a position to mount such an operation.
Putin’s growing frustrations over military failings to advance at the pace he expected, despite almost unlimited resources but also at huge cost, the stepping up of European leadership to the point where France especially is prepared to act it seems, has thrown him off balance. This was not expected.
Add to that the massive NATO exercise in Scandinavia and the Baltic, in the middle of which Sweden joins the NATO alliance having been neutral for over 200 years - all because of him and what he’s done - and the pressure has clearly gotten to him.
He faces a set of challenges he has never predicted. Europe has seen the light. And it’s not backing down despite the disinformation campaigns. If anything it’s in spite of them. Equal and opposite reactions come to mind.
So what does he do? He orders tactical nuclear weapons into Belarus in full view. More nuclear threats.
Because that’s all he has left.
Now don’t get me wrong, if pushed way too far he would use them. But he’s nowhere near at that point yet and he knows the consequences would be severe, if not crippling. Even the Chinese and certainly India would be racing for the exits. In many ways the threats over nuclear use exacerbate the facts over how weak Russian conventional forces outside of Ukraine are. Everything is tied up in this war, there’s nothing left to fight anyone except perhaps at sea.
Nuclear threats are a weakness, a
‘Tell’ that no poker player should give out so easily.
When you invade someone and get it wrong and you then dig in thinking time is on your side, you have to be ironclad in your resolve, making silly nuclear threats every other week shows you lack confidence. It shows that you think your enemies think you have become weak and you need to remind them you have a means of reaching them anywhere. Well they can reach you too. And don’t you forget it. Which is why your threats can be ignored. Nothing has happened to justify nuclear use, not even in Russian terms, though some undoubtedly think otherwise in the Kremlin’s darker depths.
Putin put himself in this position.
Putin can get himself out of it. If not, the collective west will do its best to assist him out of Ukraine’s land.
Because clearly that’s the only solution - his own failure will bring him down.
 
Scottyboi said:
From "The Analyst":

NUKES IN BELARUS, FRENCH IN ODESA, LIBERATION FORCES IN RUSSIA

President Putin’s upcoming automated re-election has inspired a great deal of external tinkering. The liberation brigades once again are making a huge splash in the border zones, which the Russians are far from containing even though they eventually will force a withdrawal that we all know is already planned. The mayhem it causes while it’s happening is entirely the point of the operation.
France has approved the security agreement with Ukraine and is now seriously talking of sending troops to Odesa within a year. The point of this is to internationalise the port to allow grain exports to continue by sea without the relentless attacks by Russian drones - many nations - most of them in Africa depend on that grain and it’s about securing that export chain.
It also has another point. Moldovan politicians are either pro Russian or pro western and Russian interference in the country has been relentless.
This has been largely due to its previous interference and effective occupation of the slither of territory known as Transnistria. Their troops are still there, mostly garrisoning a huge weapons depot that sits right on the Ukraine border.
They have been stuck there since the war began unable to leave or be rotated. Moldovan opposition leaders have recently been to Moscow begging for help. There have even been rumours that Russia would mount an airborne assault on Moldova from Crimea - but that’s verging on the ludicrous - Moldova is under constant NATO AWACS surveillance and NATO air forces patrol very close by. And the Ukrainians would know and they wouldn’t stand by and let it happen.
Besides which the Russian VDV is not what it was! And the Air Force is hardly in a position to mount such an operation.
Putin’s growing frustrations over military failings to advance at the pace he expected, despite almost unlimited resources but also at huge cost, the stepping up of European leadership to the point where France especially is prepared to act it seems, has thrown him off balance. This was not expected.
Add to that the massive NATO exercise in Scandinavia and the Baltic, in the middle of which Sweden joins the NATO alliance having been neutral for over 200 years - all because of him and what he’s done - and the pressure has clearly gotten to him.
He faces a set of challenges he has never predicted. Europe has seen the light. And it’s not backing down despite the disinformation campaigns. If anything it’s in spite of them. Equal and opposite reactions come to mind.
So what does he do? He orders tactical nuclear weapons into Belarus in full view. More nuclear threats.
Because that’s all he has left.
Now don’t get me wrong, if pushed way too far he would use them. But he’s nowhere near at that point yet and he knows the consequences would be severe, if not crippling. Even the Chinese and certainly India would be racing for the exits. In many ways the threats over nuclear use exacerbate the facts over how weak Russian conventional forces outside of Ukraine are. Everything is tied up in this war, there’s nothing left to fight anyone except perhaps at sea.
Nuclear threats are a weakness, a
‘Tell’ that no poker player should give out so easily.
When you invade someone and get it wrong and you then dig in thinking time is on your side, you have to be ironclad in your resolve, making silly nuclear threats every other week shows you lack confidence. It shows that you think your enemies think you have become weak and you need to remind them you have a means of reaching them anywhere. Well they can reach you too. And don’t you forget it. Which is why your threats can be ignored. Nothing has happened to justify nuclear use, not even in Russian terms, though some undoubtedly think otherwise in the Kremlin’s darker depths.
Putin put himself in this position.
Putin can get himself out of it. If not, the collective west will do its best to assist him out of Ukraine’s land.
Because clearly that’s the only solution - his own failure will bring him down.
Click to expand...
I feel like Putin cant pull out now,Hes pretty much all in with a pair of 5s
 
mrcunny said:
I feel like Putin cant pull out now,Hes pretty much all in with a pair of 5s
Click to expand...

There’s a narrative that allows it, because he controls the narrative, and that is that he has crushed the Nazi uprising in Ukraine, he has saved the historical Russian peoples of eastern Ukraine and he has secured Crimea and the Black Sea so that America and their NATO allies can never threaten Russia from the south.

In fact, he can retreat all the way back to the pre-invasion “border” in Ukraine and even further IF HE WANTS, BECAUSE he controls the narrative!

But, he won’t unless forced.

“Who will force him and how?” Is the $64,000 Question!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top