Has social media made the UK more right wing?

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Labour will win the next election because a huge chunk of the Tory vote won't turn up or will vote Reform - not for people changing to vote Labour - though their will be a few percentage points.
They simply can't see the point of voting for a Tory party that, in reality is slightly more left wing than Blairs first government!

Sorry, pardon?

You think this current government is more left wing than Tony Blair’s last government in 2007?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Yours is also an interesting post Rascal, because what you describe there as "Socialist was mainstream", it never was to me, centrist was "mainstream", which sadly seems to have mostly disappeared.

It depends what you mean by 'socialism' of course, but the very fact that pre-Thatcher, there were whole industries of state-owned manufacturing suggests that it was a fairly normal, mainstream position to hold. That doesn't mean that going full Stalin was ever a mainstream opinion in the UK. Nowadays, the idea of a state-run car company is a bit weird, but equally the idea of privatizing the NHS will get you run out of the country. And when it comes to trains, people are increasingly moving back towards state-owned and run as the solution.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Sorry, pardon?

You think this current government is more left wing than Tony Blair’s last government in 2007?

Many Tory voters think that.
I live in an area where a Donkey would win if it was the Tory Candidate (and often does) but I am active in the community and meet Tory voters regularly and that is pretty much their opinion
I'm of the opinion there isn't that much difference but Blair's first government was slightly more Left.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Many Tory voters think that.
I live in an area where a Donkey would win if it was the Tory Candidate (and often does) but I am active in the community and meet Tory voters regularly and that is pretty much their opinion
I'm of the opinion there isn't that much difference but Blair's first government was slightly more Left.

Interesting. Kind of blows my mind a bit.

Do they have any reasoning as to why?

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I am quite new to facebook and its full of right wing stuff, i have been on twitter for years and that is a pit of hatred. Who needs the Daily Mail when you get hate for free on social media.

Am i wrong? whats your experiences?

Its given a voice to all the people that are normally ignored and given them a base to be heard by the kind of folk that they would never have been otherwise entertained by because they are cunts. Its just a big cycle of cuntery for clowns

 

[BlueAnorak]

Interesting. Kind of blows my mind a bit.

Do they have any reasoning as to why?

Is their anything more than a risler paper between Sunak and Starmer? Go through the known policies one by one and there isn't.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Is their anything more than a risler paper between Sunak and Starmer? Go through the known policies one by one and there isn't.

That’s not the same as suggesting this current government is to the left of Blair’s government in 2007 though, is it?

These days, the opposition can’t propose anything as anything that is deemed decent on social media is implemented by their opponents immediately.

I’ll judge Starmer as and when he gets in.

Suggesting that this government that wants to illegally send people to a “safe” country in Rwanda, whilst deregulating most things to allow sewage in our rivers and our trains and water etc to go bust doesn’t seem very left wing.

Are there any realistic reasons why this government could be called left wing, other than to normalise the next version of far right shite as “centrist”?

 

[inbetween]

That is an interesting post because now being a Socialist means I am far left, where once being a Socialist was mainstream, think Atlee, Bevan Benn et al, even Corbyn who was to the right of those people was ostracised as a communist.

It backs up my thinking that left wing ideals are being ostracised on social media.

Can i summise then that social media is heavily influenced and manipulated by the right?

Come on mate, we've had some exchanges on here before and the most memorable thing I can recall is you believe in an authoritarian left wing government which stinks of far-left ideologue to me.

Most people would take the nationalisation of the trains and you'd struggle to find anyone who disagrees. However honestly I doubt that any majority also wants their entire life to be nationalised and rubber stamped by the state which is what proper socialism demands. This is the kind of stuff that scares people to vote for the status quo.

Aside from this the past is the past and we're not all down the pits anymore. Life today is infinitely better than it was 100 years ago.

Let's be honest though, a lot of that is simply due to the government we have. People moan about the government, so if the government is right wing, the most vocal criticism are likely to come from the left. Particularly with the current government, which even most Tory voters would admit is on its last legs at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if the posts from the final days of Gordon Brown made the forum seem more right wing.

One thing I do remember was that during the Brexit vote, there was a poll on this forum that got it pretty much bang on.

Regardless of the shite that has happened over the last few years the Tories just do not have any answers to the problems facing the country and that's assuming they're even bothered at this stage.

To me the next election won't be about left or right, it'll be about removing a dead government and replacing it with one that actually does something. I don't want the economy blowing apart and replacing, I just want somebody to make things work again.

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

I think the reason why the railway system in the UK is poor is not because it has not been nationalized, but because it cannot make money.
When you have a greedy financial system, everything is rising in price. Industries like railways that serve the general public cannot keep up with the speed of price increases in the financial system. So decay occurred. Nationalizing it cannot fundamentally solve the problem.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Regardless of the shite that has happened over the last few years the Tories just do not have any answers to the problems facing the country and that's assuming they're even bothered at this stage.

To me the next election won't be about left or right, it'll be about removing a dead government and replacing it with one that actually does something. I don't want the economy blowing apart and replacing, I just want somebody to make things work again.

I feel like the horse has already bolted on that one. At least the first half has already been done.

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

Railway is a complex system that requires land acquisition, a large amount of construction equipment, personnel, steel, signal and control systems.
There are many components in between, and when your financial system brings inflation to the entire society, each component is rising in price.
You need to multiply by many (1+x%), which will cause your overall price to rise exponentially.
You can't bear this kind of rise, so your railway system is struggling.
This can be anything, not just railways.
Undoubtedly, the British people need a complex industrial system. And everything that can support it, not only finance, but also people's thoughts and ideologies. Britain was once the place where industrial civilization began. I don't know if the current British are ready for another industrialization. People seem more willing to discuss how to protect democracy.

 

[blueinsa]

People love acting like arseholes with no comeback. Social media is perfect for this. Indeed, If folks said what they say on social media in public they'd be twatted fairly quickly.

Social media is also an echo chamber for like minded opinions - left, right, religion and tin-foil-hat. People join groups that match their opinions and are gratified that others share them. It also emphasises and hardens their opinions as they don't have to face their opinions being scrutinised by others. That also breeds intolerance and that is probably the biggest problem with modern societies the world over.

To be honnest this politics forum is a bit of an echo chamber for those of a socialist persuasion. Centrists through Right wingers avoid it like the plague for the most part.

Spot on, again.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Social media has made people more divided as a whole but not necessarily right wing.

I don’t really do social media anymore for that reason but there’s plenty of crazy far left nonsense as well.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

People love acting like arseholes with no comeback. Social media is perfect for this. Indeed, If folks said what they say on social media in public they'd be twatted fairly quickly.

Social media is also an echo chamber for like minded opinions - left, right, religion and tin-foil-hat. People join groups that match their opinions and are gratified that others share them. It also emphasises and hardens their opinions as they don't have to face their opinions being scrutinised by others. That also breeds intolerance and that is probably the biggest problem with modern societies the world over.

To be honnest this politics forum is a bit of an echo chamber for those of a socialist persuasion. Centrists through Right wingers avoid it like the plague for the most part.

Bang on, including about the politics forum on here.

My politics could be described as New Labour centrist remainer and I get made out to be some kind of Tommy Robinson character by some posters on the politics threads!

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Social media has made people more divided as a whole but not necessarily right wing.

I don’t really do social media anymore for that reason but there’s plenty of crazy far left nonsense as well.

I think social media makes (certain) people say and read more extreme things whatever views they have, and it explicitly rewards that sort of thing. Extreme/controversial views create engagement, which is what these things run on. It's why fairly normal Youtube videos have to come up with ridiculous, clickbait titles and thumbnails.

You then add to that the sort of echo-chamber nonsense, where people get status in their in-group by being more pious than everyone else. It reminds me of religion a bit. You see those guys in Spain walking through the streets whipping themselves and wonder what they get out of it. If it was just about a personal belief, then there would be no need to do it publically. But that's not what it's about, it's about showing to the rest of the group how pious you are. And it's the same on social media. 'Woke' leftists and 'gammon' right wingers trawling the news for things to get offended by. And these things become more and more minor over time as the list of things to be offended by becomes more and more petty.

 

[inbetween]

Railway is a complex system that requires land acquisition, a large amount of construction equipment, personnel, steel, signal and control systems.
There are many components in between, and when your financial system brings inflation to the entire society, each component is rising in price.
You need to multiply by many (1+x%), which will cause your overall price to rise exponentially.
You can't bear this kind of rise, so your railway system is struggling.
This can be anything, not just railways.
Undoubtedly, the British people need a complex industrial system. And everything that can support it, not only finance, but also people's thoughts and ideologies. Britain was once the place where industrial civilization began. I don't know if the current British are ready for another industrialization. People seem more willing to discuss how to protect democracy.

The problem with the railways doesn't just come down to infrastructure, it's also just really badly run and it isn't seen by the government as a critical piece of infrastructure when it should be. I can get to Manchester in 30 minutes on the train however further investment in steel and concrete is pointless when those trains aren't running. We do need new infrastructure but once built you'd really struggle to find any confidence that it would even operate.

I'm not just blaming the franchises because it is the attitude of the government that is directly responsible. The government has effectively nationalised the railways in this area and nothing has changed. The reason why it hasn't changed is they just don't care and they can't comprehend just how important it is to people.

They know full well about this failure and it's why they choose to focus on other issues such as migrants in boats however that is really funny because their record on that is absolutely awful too. And this is why they're facing electoral oblivion.

 

[Palerider]

I am quite new to facebook and its full of right wing stuff, i have been on twitter for years and that is a pit of hatred. Who needs the Daily Mail when you get hate for free on social media.

Am i wrong? whats your experiences?

I don't use Facebook or Twitter at all. The only forums I use are bluemoon, the Telegraph and the Guardian. All are biased and full of people who 'know' what is right. So if Facebook and Twitter are even worse count me out! Maybe the question 'Is being right wing, centre or left wing best?' would be interesting. It seems that many people just assume that because they are right wing, centre or left wing that, of course it's best.

I saw a rather chilling interview with a Russian official last week. The gist of it is that the the western interviewer asked the official something like 'Is it right that Putin had virtually no opposition in the election?' The Russian official answered 'Why do you want to tell everyone else what to do and think? We do not think like you".

Here's a list of the politicians that have killed the most people,
Top Ten Most Evil Dictators of All Time (in order of kill count)

• Kim Il Sung (1.6M deaths) ...
• Pol Pot (1.7M deaths) ...
• Ismail Enver Pasha (2.5M deaths) ...
• Hideki Tojo (5M deaths) ...
• Leopold II of Belgium (2-15M deaths) ...
• Adolf Hitler (17M deaths) BREAKDOWN. ...
• Jozef Stalin (23M deaths) BREAKDOWN. ...
• Mao Zedong (49-78M deaths) BREAKDOWN.

It might be fun to put political affiliation of right, centre, left next to the names.

 

[BrianW]

The reason why many think this Tory government is left-wing is because they are incapable of rational thought and merely parrot the nonsense they read in the Daily Mail and on many online sites.

Objectively, the Macmillan (Tory) government was way, way to the left of the present one. They used to boast about how many council houses they had built.

I would suggest the problem is that the radical right is now seen by many as being 'conservative'. It is not, by its very nature, as radical and conservative cannot exist in the same paradigm. Brexit was the least conservative policy imaginable. Radical constitutional change, undertaken without any real consensus that it was justified and carried out without any proper plan or vision. Indeed, arguably it was the most radical change since the Glorious Revolution.

The radical right has nothing to offer but slogans and simplistic solutions that do not survive contact with the real world. However, such slogans and simplistic solutions are often what people want to hear. We live in a world where many people are fearful, desperate, or both. In such circumstances, fuckwitted demagogues like Farage and Johnson get a hearing, when in 'normal' or prosperous times they would be laughed at.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I don't use Facebook or Twitter at all. The only forums I use are bluemoon, the Telegraph and the Guardian. All are biased and full of people who 'know' what is right. So if Facebook and Twitter are even worse count me out! Maybe the question 'Is being right wing, centre or left wing best?' would be interesting. It seems that many people just assume that because they are right wing, centre or left wing that, of course it's best.

I saw a rather chilling interview with a Russian official last week. The gist of it is that the the western interviewer asked the official something like 'Is it right that Putin had virtually no opposition?' The Russian official answered 'Why do you want to tell everyone else what to do and think? We do not think like you".

The point is that they've got no way of knowing how "we" think, because there's no opportunity for 99.99% of people to actually express what they think. What he means by "we" is the handful of people who control the country.

I've seen the PM of Singapore giving a similar answer, but it's less of an issue when the person saying it isn't a murderous dictator, and to my knowledge Lee Hsien Loong isn't killing people and subjugating his people.

Here's a list of the politicians that have killed the most people,
Top Ten Most Evil Dictators of All Time (in order of kill count)

• Kim Il Sung (1.6M deaths) ...
• Pol Pot (1.7M deaths) ...
• Ismail Enver Pasha (2.5M deaths) ...
• Hideki Tojo (5M deaths) ...
• Leopold II of Belgium (2-15M deaths) ...
• Adolf Hitler (17M deaths) BREAKDOWN. ...
• Jozef Stalin (23M deaths) BREAKDOWN. ...
• Mao Zedong (49-78M deaths) BREAKDOWN.

It might be fun to put political affiliation of right, centre, left next to the names.

I don't really want to engage in murderous dictator top trumps, but let's be honest, death tolls are often more a measure of how many people you happened to be in charge of rather than how evil you are. Mao is at the top because China's a big country, but the reality is that most of his deaths were caused by failed economic policies leading to famine (not that he wasn't also a murderous dictator, of course). Is that worse that Cromwell (is he technically a lefty too?), who killed 40% of the Irish population? Or Pol Pot, who was in charge of a smaller country, but managed a genocide of over 20% of the people? Or Bagosora, who deliberate killed 75% of the Tutsi population? Does it even matter whether the deaths were deliberate genocide, incompetence, or callousness and negligence?

 

[Phil1]

The irony meter is off the scale the last couple of pages.