The level of depravity described and the effort to excuse it defies the senses…
They knew exactly how the Israel's would react under Netanyahu, and the idiots did just that.Penny for the thoughts of the cunts who organised and authorised 7th October. It can’t be discounted that this is precisely what they wanted. Long term, Israel has royally fucked it for themselves.
Your and my view of long term are very different to the two combatants. They're thinking of what the map looks like in 200 years or more.Penny for the thoughts of the cunts who organised and authorised 7th October. It can’t be discounted that this is precisely what they wanted. Long term, Israel has royally fucked it for themselves.
I’m struggling to disagree with any of that.Your and my view of long term are very different to the two combatants. They're thinking of what the map looks like in 200 years or more.
The Palestinian bit has been shrinking for years and they needed to do something to raise the stakes however awful. Israel has made a Palestinian state more rather than less likely.
I think we can agree that Biden nor Trump are suitable.I disagree with most of what you have written.
First, you should not base any analysis on what Trump says, especially not when he is trying to get reelected, by hook or by crook (with the intent of destroying what is left of American republic to ensure his own safety and power).
You should base analysis on what Trump has actually done, which is cozy up with and empower the far right in the US, Israel, and elsewhere. He is extremely unlikely to break from that behaviour given the far right are the only force propping him up at the moment (and will be the way in which he wields power if he regains the presidency). He has continually, especially privately, supported Netanyahu as a “strong man” leader, primarily as a means of playing Israel and Saudi (and a few other countries in the region) off each other. He has no love for either Jews or Muslims, and especially not Palestinians, which he has derided several times.
He also believes in ‘might is right’ action, largely because that is what keeps him relevant and protected, and cares not about the plight of any marginalised or oppressed population. In fact, he has shown over and over again that he despises marginalised people. Nor does he care about genocide or apartheid; he would carry it out himself in a heartbeat if there was something to be gained for him personally and no consequences imposed on him for doing so.
He cares only about “loyalty” and who gives him the most deference and access to wealth. Both things Netanyahu will shower him with in an attempt to cling on to power (if he makes it that far).
Trump is not going to end the war, at least not in any way that is not horrific for the Palestinians (and likely other parties. He is also not going to support a two-state solution (which will never happen under the current Israeli government).
Second, I am not sure where your belief that Biden has brought us to the brink of world war has come from. Putin (and in many ways Trump) has been working to do that for several decades. Biden has been in power for less than 4 years and inherited Trump’s appeasement of Putin’s violent, expansionist actions, constantly contravening international law. All Biden has done whilst in office is help Ukraine and other now nervous sovereign nations to resist Putin’s murderous, megalomaniacal operations. To say Biden is responsible for Putin continually invading sovereign nations and carrying out terrorist operations in the US, UK, Germany, France, and many other countries is simply nonsensical.
Finally, to say that Trump could not be worse than the current political class ignores essentially all evidence from his term as president and after. He literally wants to be eviscerate the American democratic republic and install himself as a de facto dictator. You can say what you want about Biden, or Sunak, or Macron—and I have said quite a lot—but there is at least a means for removing them or influencing their behaviour, however difficult or ineffective at times. Trump wants to do away with any mechanism allowing for control, oversight, or influence over his power.
I genuinely do not understand how someone could think Trump would not be worse than the crop of leaders we have now, when his intention is to remove the system that allows for them to be changed.
It is strange that you infer that people in opposition of Trump (or Putin or Netanyahu, it seems) are operating on emotion, when a cold analysis of Trump’s actual deeds, revealed beliefs, and policy outcomes shows he is danger to societies everywhere, much less America, Israel, or Palestine.
But I think we have entered a discussion more relevant to the Trump thread than this one at this point.
That penny should also go to the far-right within Isreal, many of whom have been desperate for an event like 7th October to occur so as to enable the actioning of their vision for “solving” the Palestinian problem.Penny for the thoughts of the cunts who organised and authorised 7th October. It can’t be discounted that this is precisely what they wanted. Long term, Israel has royally fucked it for themselves.
I don’t think you and I will agree on much based on the exchange thus far; we seemingly have very different approaches to assessing current events, and lens through which we see said events. And I don’t want to divert the thread to discussions of Trump, Biden, Putin, and other wars ongoing, given there are other threads for that.I think we can agree that Biden nor Trump are suitable.
It depends really upon your point of view of whether you want these conflicts to end or not. I just feel that it is more likely that the conflicts will end with Trump because unlike Biden that's what he's saying he'll do. Whether that ends in favour of the Palestinians is a very different matter but no US president is going to put Palestine above Israel. It is therefore pointless to somehow expect any US president to take charge and resolve what is happening.
I don't think that people quite understand or realise just how perilous the global security situation is and why Gaza/Palestine is just another proxy war in this huge escalation of east vs west. At this stage it doesn't require much to trigger the most devastating war in history. Ships and military sites are now under open attack in the Middle East, NATO is threatened with nuclear attack and is threatening Russia in return. This level of serious escalation and open attack has never happened before and what is Biden doing about it?
What's happening over there is essentially an extension of proxy wars with the axis of Iran, Syria and Russia. You only have to ask where does Palestine fit into this? It doesn't, the Palestinians are just a pawn in a much bigger game but they're part of that game. None of the countries that support the likes of Hamas want peace, Iran has a state aim to completely destroy Israel, they do not care about the Palestinians.
I still maintain that the only future for the Palestinians is one where they must be seperated from Hamas and the game that is being played around them. That can only happen if Hamas surrenders and the Palestinian authorities are able to take charge of their future. Anything else means war and suffering. The Palestinian supporters who also support Hamas are sending the Palestinians to their deaths because they're supporting the fight against an advanced military state where the end result is inevitable.
I'm afraid it does. Billions of dollars more of Military weapons currently on there way over curtesy of the Yanks.Absolutely sickening, and indefensible. Does this just continue until an entire population is wiped out? The shoulder shrugging shows just how complicit the US and others are in this, for me.
On a practical point. What are their biggest exports?Yes we can. Boycott anything Israeli.
The parallels with apartheid are stark. The people know what's happening and how our govn are complicit.
You cannot isolate what is happening by not addressing the greater picture. My opinion is that this is a pointless conversation because Hamas can never win and Israel will continue whilst Hamas remains because the greater picture is an existential threat to Israel. Therefore, there is no future for the Palestinians and there will be no end to the suffering and war whilst a Russia-Syrian-Iran aligned Hamas remain in power in Gaza.I don’t think you and I will agree on much based on the exchange thus far; we seemingly have very different approaches to assessing current events, and lens through which we see said events. And I don’t want to divert the thread to discussions of Trump, Biden, Putin, and other wars ongoing, given there are other threads for that.
So I will just say that I don’t see the far-right Israeli government campaign in Gaza and the West Bank as just another East-West Proxy war. Nor do I see Trump and Biden as equally unviable for addressing this conflict or even the others ongoing. Nor do I blame most Palestinians (who are children) for the genocide currently being carried out against them, whether they nominally support Hamas or not.
Ah so these weapons are to deal with Iran. There's me thinking they keep getting used to murder Tens of thousands of Palestinians. Glad you've cleared it up.For a minute there, I thought I’d dropped in on the Joke Thread!
Boycott anything Israeli?? What, like Jesus??? And I suppose you boycotted Easter this year and explained it to your kids, right?
When is Bluemoon going to wake up to the fact that Netanyahu wants all the hostages back and Hamas obliterated? Has he been too subtle?
When is the global community going to demand the hostages be returned?
And, don’t get me wrong…I think aid should be allowed in by road and that emergency services restored, but Hamas is using human shields and when they get hurt, who is getting the blame? War is hell. I get it.
No easy solutions, but a few of the obvious Starters for 10 wouldn’t go amiss.
As for the U.S. providing munitions, get over it. It is a vital geopolitical ally and can’t be left bare-arsed with Iran playing silly buggers. Now, though, it’d be nice if Congressional Republicans could spare a thought for the Ukrainians!!!
You're opinion is very west centric. For you the baddies are Syria and Iran who actually are situated in the middle east whilst countries who've been interfering in the area for years, like the US, France and Britain, are many thousands of miles away.You cannot isolate what is happening by not addressing the greater picture. My opinion is that this is a pointless conversation because Hamas can never win and Israel will continue whilst Hamas remains because the greater picture is an existential threat to Israel. Therefore, there is no future for the Palestinians and there will be no end to the suffering and war whilst a Russia-Syrian-Iran aligned Hamas remain in power in Gaza.
If your view is that only Israel is responsible for this and the rest is irrelevant then the only conceivable thing that needs to happen for peace is regime change in Israel but that isn't going to happen anytime soon is it? I'd love to see regime change in Russia to end the war in Ukraine but that definitely isn't going to happen and we can't make it happen without risking nuclear war.
In the meantime nobody in the west is going to sanction or harm Israel given the factional threats that now exist against the west in the Middle East. The west is far more likely to help Israel more given what Russia, Syria and Iran are doing in the region. Those countries have chosen to isolate Israel and that in itself is a much larger threat to Israel and it's why western support has never been more important to it.
Easter is a pagan festival that was hijacked first by Christians then by chocolate manufacturers.For a minute there, I thought I’d dropped in on the Joke Thread @Gorton_Tubster!
Boycott anything Israeli??
What, like Jesus???
And I suppose you boycotted Easter this year and explained it to your kids, right?