Whaley Bridge shooting

hilts said:
Yeah I agree with that, but I think he has a good case for diminished responsibility
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He might, it’d be up to his defence counsel to convince the jury. They’d probably be wanting to be more sympathetic than if they were on the samurai sword child killer jury.
 
Maybe the householder thought it was either shoot the intruders, or get a crime number and an unfulfilled promise to come round and dust for fingerprints.
 
Here you go.
Just read up on the MEN site. Like clockwork!

""He was a Resident DJ here and we are devastated at your loss he was much loved by everyone who met him, he was a funny, polite, well mannered, charming young man who will be extremely missed by everyone, our thoughts, wishes and prayers to you all."

Missed by everyone???
Well the guy who shot him while being robbed didn't miss him. Just did the world a favour.

The funeral will be like some returning war hero as well...
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
If we’re adding in hypotheticals, any verdict is possible.
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I was merely pointing out that there are instances where a shot in the back can be deemed defensive, based on both distance and the actions of the victim.

I’m sure the British justice system will take care of this matter in its own way.
 
hilts said:
It must have happened at some point, jury get together decide he is guilty of the offence but think fuck that due to the circumstances. At the end of the day as a juror you can give any verdict you want. I think sometimes it's why they go for the easier manslaughter charge.

Couple of years in an open prison seems about right. He can probably never live in his farm again.

* this is all based on the events put in the thread.
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1670, I believe and it has been a cornerstone of the English legal system ever since. It's called Jury nullification and is based on the jury's absolute right to return a verdict as they see fit. It works because Juries can't be prosecuted for the verdict they deliver and the accused can't be subject to double jeopardy. It is one of the stronger arguments, I think, for having jury trials and not a panel of judges, as is common in many European coutries.
 
fulabeer said:
Here you go.
Just read up on the MEN site. Like clockwork!

""He was a Resident DJ here and we are devastated at your loss he was much loved by everyone who met him, he was a funny, polite, well mannered, charming young man who will be extremely missed by everyone, our thoughts, wishes and prayers to you all."

Missed by everyone???
Well the guy who shot him while being robbed didn't miss him. Just did the world a favour.
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He was just having a bad day, amiright?!!
 
blueish swede said:
1670, I believe and it has been a cornerstone of the English legal system ever since. It's called Jury nullification and is based on the jury's absolute right to return a verdict as they see fit. It works because Juries can't be prosecuted for the verdict they deliver and the accused can't be subject to double jeopardy. It is one of the stronger arguments, I think, for having jury trials and not a panel of judges, as is common in many European coutries.
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I'd love to be on a jury I'm like the reverse Henry Fonda(young people will be puzzled by this analogy)
 
jimharri said:
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. We had a fairly high profile case in Mayo nearly twenty years ago...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward

Padraig Nally became a bit of a hero to folk living in rural Ireland, particularly those living alone who were afraid of becoming victims of burglary. Out from his family, I doubt there were many tears shed for the "victim".
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Surely it should cross the criminal fraternities minds that farmers may have guns and possibly don't want to talk about childhood issues and have a counselling session first.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I was merely pointing out that there are instances where a shot in the back can be deemed defensive, based on both distance and the actions of the victim.

I’m sure the British justice system will take care of this matter in its own way.
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Ah ok, we’re at cross purposes a little bit. The shot in the back incident I was referring to was Tony Martin’s shooting of his intruder in the back in the 90s, which he was convicted of murder, before being lowered to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.

They were running away from him at the time, iirc.



This particular case, nothing is known other than what was described on here anecdotally. He might get off with it if the circumstances dictate. Time will tell, I was merely commenting on the anecdotal evidence on here.
 
hilts said:
It must have happened at some point, jury get together decide he is guilty of the offence but think fuck that due to the circumstances. At the end of the day as a juror you can give any verdict you want. I think sometimes it's why they go for the easier manslaughter charge.

Couple of years in an open prison seems about right. He can probably never live in his farm again.

* this is all based on the events put in the thread.
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Surely, it can’t be murder. He didn’t plan to kill anyone or go looking to harm. It came to him, he was scared for his life (and the difference in age helps him there) and it’s only his misreading of his rights of self-protection that have tripped him up her. The “victim” is the guy with the gun, not the scrote terrorizing him!

The scrote didn’t die.
The farmer was afraid for his life.
The gun went off accidentally.

Ergo, illegal discharge of a firearm. Slap on the wrist!!!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Surely, it can’t be murder. He didn’t plan to kill anyone or go looking to harm. It came to him, he was scared for his life (and the difference in age helps him there) and it’s only his misreading of his rights of self-protection that have tripped him up her. The “victim” is the guy with the gun, not the scrote terrorizing him!

The scrote didn’t die.
The farmer was afraid for his life.
The gun went off accidentally.

Ergo, illegal discharge of a firearm. Slap on the wrist!!!
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Betterdeedthan red said:
My daughters know these lads.
They broke in the night before and apparently nicked 20k.
Went back the next day to nick his guns so they could Rob a farm not far away that has a big weed grow.
Only thing is they told every fucker they were going back.
The farmer was waiting shot one point blank in the face apparently.
But he's been charged with pre meditated murder.
He had been broken into 17 times in the last 2 years and told the police next time I will shoot them.
He's meant to be a really nice guy .
Little bastards got what they deserved
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This is what my basis of premeditated murder came from. It’s a planned act.
 
hilts said:
I'd love to be on a jury I'm like the reverse Henry Fonda(young people will be puzzled by this analogy)
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A lot of the time you are just sat around waiting. Quite a few of the Jury are usually not interested in events and will just go with the flow. They are more likely to listen to the opinions of their fellow jury members than hold a significant grasp of events and usually sit silently during any discussions
 
fulabeer said:
Here you go.
Just read up on the MEN site. Like clockwork!

""He was a Resident DJ here and we are devastated at your loss he was much loved by everyone who met him, he was a funny, polite, well mannered, charming young man who will be extremely missed by everyone, our thoughts, wishes and prayers to you all."

Missed by everyone???
Well the guy who shot him while being robbed didn't miss him. Just did the world a favour.

The funeral will be like some returning war hero as well...
Click to expand...
This tends to cast doubt on the idea that criminals are criminals because they have desperate lives and are thieving to avoid poverty.
Wonder if he had a pet snake called Basil?
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Surely, it can’t be murder. He didn’t plan to kill anyone or go looking to harm. It came to him, he was scared for his life (and the difference in age helps him there) and it’s only his misreading of his rights of self-protection that have tripped him up her. The “victim” is the guy with the gun, not the scrote terrorizing him!

The scrote didn’t die.
The farmer was afraid for his life.
The gun went off accidentally.

Ergo, illegal discharge of a firearm. Slap on the wrist!!!
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That's exactly the line of defence any decent Brief would use. All as he/she needs to do is put the Jury members in the position of the defendant who was probably of previous good character whereas the teenage scrotes out terrorising the local community and no Jury member would convict on that basis
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
It’s a different country, with different laws and everyone is armed to the teeth. The culture is certainly different.

Vigilantism will never be the best case scenario for any culture, in my opinion, anyway.
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Could not agree more.

Given the unfortunate reaction of this normally law abiding farmer the apparent 3 or 4 robbers would have chosen a different person to steal from.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Surely, it can’t be murder. He didn’t plan to kill anyone or go looking to harm. It came to him, he was scared for his life (and the difference in age helps him there) and it’s only his misreading of his rights of self-protection that have tripped him up her. The “victim” is the guy with the gun, not the scrote terrorizing him!

The scrote didn’t die.
The farmer was afraid for his life.
The gun went off accidentally.

Ergo, illegal discharge of a firearm. Slap on the wrist!!!
Click to expand...

It's actually why I think at worst it's diminished responsibility.

A clear thinking person wouldn't tell the police he would kill them after the last time. That would be madness. Stress can come and go and everyone at some point has said I will kill you or such like. Doesn't mean they do nor does it mean they won't say it again.

Also a right minded person would make it look like self defense during or after the event.

I don't think people realise the amount of stress being burgled in such a remote place over and over again can do to someone. He couldn't escape the situation it's his home. 3 young lads turn up your gonna be scared angry and very stressed.

How many could act rationally in that situation?
 
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