Keir Starmer

[Bigga]

I don't post on the Ukraine thread because it's very hard to tell fact from fiction, Russia are cunts but I can't bring myself to shout in what has turned into an echo chamber.

In the light of the death of Cox the Labour MP we have people who wish harm on sitting MP's because the clowns think they have the right.

In the tragic case of Joanne Cox, wasn't she murdered by an extreme right-winger?

Hardly a put down of anyone 'left', surely?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

People just don't admit what they are mate, there are some people on the Palestine thread that are reasonable in intent but there are others who are having a field day because they are Jew haters.

I didn't see anything racist in the threads.

There were distasteful posts that could have upset offended a few people that only saw one view and one mindset, but in the main the posts were pretty restrained.

There were numerous posters explaining that they didn't agree with what Hamas were doing but were shocked at the response from the Israeli side because it was so disproportionate and those posters were explaining that UN schools and civilians shouldn't have been considered targets and the collateral damage was too severe for it to be warranted.

However (Let's call it the other side) were only interested in seeing it their own way and if you didn't see it their way which was/is that Israel is justified in bombing the Jesus out of Gaza indiscriminately then you are a terrorist sympathiser.

Even whispering the Jewish/Israeli lobby was enough to have the racist silencing tactic launched in your direction.

The same people who agree with Israels treament of the Palestinians are as one when it comes to eradicating the butchers of ISIS/IS with airstrikes without understanding how ISIS/IS came about and why they exist.

I have had the same conversations on here about UKIP and the EDL and some posters can't/wont differentiate between the two even after I have stated that the EDL are a bunch of thugs it wasn't good enough.....but in that discussion there were far more posters understanding that viewpoint without necessarily agreeing with it.

I'll agree at some point the mods have to make a decision on the commentary of the Israel situation, because that is what it had become it was happening and people were commenting on what was happening then in real time. But the decision to pull a thread seemed to be when the Pro-Israeli posters who were on the back foot constantly derailed threads.

Example.

UN school hit and 20 children killed.

Answer.

It's Hamas's fault they are killing their own people by default.

Which is a ridiculous answer isn't it?

The last thread that was pulled was about the Israel/jewish lobby myth when it's not a myth it's a reality.

But the Pro-Israelis (Not all of them) were only regurgitating the same pap that Mark Regev spouts in his propaganda reports.

Someone even mentioned throwing battery acid on an MP here yesterday, it's where we are.

Did they?



Even the reference to an MP is dishonest.

 

[mexico1970]

In the tragic case of Joanne Cox, wasn't she murdered by an extreme right-winger?

Hardly a put down of anyone 'left', surely?

Yup and it should never have happened, only yesterday though we had someone joking about throwing battery acid on an incumbent MP using the excuse that they are better than them.

And not a single poster pulled the post up.

 

[Bigga]

It changes, it's just a perception, for instance without a bloody Marxist revolution there can't be a Communist country.

Forgetting the commies for a second though, it's the modern liberals that I can't stand.

Can I ask you why you believe Marxism became a thing?

In doing so, why do you think Capitalism is getting such challenges?

What would be the alternative for you?

Cheers.

 

[mexico1970]

Can I ask you why you believe Marxism became a thing?

In doing so, why do you think Capitalism is getting such challenges?

What would be the alternative for you?

Cheers.

IMHO Marxism became a thing because of the huge inequalities of the time, rich and poor back then meant rich being rich but the poor actually starving to death. I know it's a simple explanation but without the nuance it works.

I'm a centrist mate with a smattering of socialism and nationalism.

The only way that I can see a system working is a system without party politics and without parties picking candidates. Yes it's clunky and messy but this is a shitstorm isn't it?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I'm a centrist mate with a smattering of socialism and nationalism.

The only way that I can see a system working is a system without party politics and without parties picking candidates. Yes it's clunky and messy but this is a shitstorm isn't it?

Wrong order I think.

 

[Bigga]

Yup and it should never have happened, only yesterday though we had someone joking about throwing battery acid on an incumbent MP using the excuse that they are better than them.

And not a single poster pulled the post up.

A US comedian joked with a physical comedy of hold Trump's bloody head in her hand and she lost her job. I remember some posters voicing how distasteful it was.

For posters to not pull up the 'joke' about battery acid is a fair point.

Some will be selective in outrage in these cases.

 

[Postman Pep]

In the tragic case of Joanne Cox, wasn't she murdered by an extreme right-winger?

Hardly a put down of anyone 'left', surely?

Don't bother with facts mate. He is just weaponising a tragedy to score points on a football forum.

 

[mexico1970]

A US comedian joked with a physical comedy of hold Trump's bloody head in her hand and she lost her job. I remember some posters voicing how distasteful it was.

For posters to not pull up the 'joke' about battery acid is a fair point.

Some will be selective in outrage in these cases.

Little che's don't like me and I am happy with that, after all the alternative is for me to become as small minded and hateful as they are.

Most of them are on the Palestine thread with their trousers down anyway.

 

[Bigga]

IMHO Marxism became a thing because of the huge inequalities of the time, rich and poor back then meant rich being rich but the poor actually starving to death. I know it's a simple explanation but without the nuance it works.

I'm a centrist mate with a smattering of socialism and nationalism.

The only way that I can see a system working is a system without party politics and without parties picking candidates. Yes it's clunky and messy but this is a shitstorm isn't it?

Okay, thanks for that.

I'm a bit confused though, as both of these parties have gotten closer to the middle. So much so, there's a rizla paper's difference between them!

Are they not centrist now, if not right of centre??

I have said before this country can only progress in fairness and togetherness by leaning more left to centralise in the future, otherwise we just keep going down the same path, especially as these parties are, basically, a Uni-Party now.

We're now voting on personalities, not policies.

 

[The blue phantom]

There was once a picture of Dazdon, He even started a forum up with about 25 posters and they were all him. True story. He was outed by folk on the other group years ago. Think it was Skaskion who rumbled him. It was epic.

 

[mexico1970]

Okay, thanks for that.

I'm a bit confused though, as both of these parties have gotten closer to the middle. So much so, there's a rizla paper's difference between them!

Are they not centrist now, if not right of centre??

I have said before this country can only progress in fairness and togetherness by leaning more left to centralise in the future, otherwise we just keep going down the same path, especially as these parties are, basically, a Uni-Party now.

We're now voting on personalities, not policies.

The fight right now is absurdly Labour against Labour and a power struggle for ideologies, the remnants of a nasty Corbyn group are being flushed and as you can see on here some don't like it, Starmer being labelled a Tory by his own mob.

We are now surely a one party state, centrist or centrist, not a great choice is it?

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Outwitted and outflanked by Diane Abbott.

God help us if this clown gets into power.

Are you really that dense?

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The fight right now is absurdly Labour against Labour and a power struggle for ideologies, the remnants of a nasty Corbyn group are being flushed and as you can see on here some don't like it, Starmer being labelled a Tory by his own mob.

We are now surely a one party state, centrist or centrist, not a great choice is it?

Those on the right of the Labour Party (and the centre of politics in general) have been called that since Blair came to power.

I've been called a Tory by shitloads of people on the far left and I've never voted for them once in my life. Always voted Labour, apart from under Corbyn when I just couldn't bring myself to do it and voted Lib Dem.

 

[mexico1970]

Those on the right of the Labour Party (and the centre of politics in general) have been called that since Blair came to power.

I've been called a Tory by shitloads of people on the far left and I've never voted for them once in my life. Always voted Labour, apart from under Corbyn when I just couldn't bring myself to do it and voted Lib Dem.

We have reached overdrive imho, the writing is on the wall for the spiteful part of the Labour party and they don't like it.

I'm voting for Starmer because the Tories are too shit to be even considered.

 

[urban genie]

I knew these countries would come up and as to why I tempered my point with the phrase "effective". These countries are not strictly communist in anything I've read, but have ideologies leaning more towards that than capitalism.

well depends if you actually have read any marx and engels stuff on capitalism, markets and free trade, communism allows for such as free trade, international trade and it recognises that capitalism is the dominant economic force and that it needs eventually to be replaced by a more equal model that benefits all rather than a few private owners who put profit possesion and property over people.

so yes Vietnam and china in paticular who trade extensively in the markets and internationally can be called communist even though the idea of communiam fed to us is one of repressive societies, gulags, and isolationlism, that is Juchism or starlinism, communism in Soviet nations dissapeared in 1924 and China is maoist more than anything, a mix of marxism and confucianism

Cuba is purposely not allowed to grow economically by america and Laos was treated like shite during and after the vietnam war and punished heavily by being on the Vietmanise side leaving it isolated.


some on here have no idea of the plethora of different offshoots of ideas like marxism, liberalism, conservatism and like to throw people under the simple blanket of one of the three, when it is alot more complex than that.


From what I read here there it is no marxist or traditional liberals(whiggism), there are socialists, some neo-liberals, maybe anarcho-communist/syndalists, a few conservatives and unionists, and a rare far right crank.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Okay, thanks for that.

I'm a bit confused though, as both of these parties have gotten closer to the middle. So much so, there's a rizla paper's difference between them!

Are they not centrist now, if not right of centre??

I have said before this country can only progress in fairness and togetherness by leaning more left to centralise in the future, otherwise we just keep going down the same path, especially as these parties are, basically, a Uni-Party now.

We're now voting on personalities, not policies.

This version of the Conservative Party are many things but centrist is not one of them.

There's a reason Labour are 20 points ahead in the polls, they are virtually unchallenged in the centre ground.

I'm boring myself to death saying this over and over but whoever owns the centre wins, especially when it comes to Labour. Blair (and credit to Mandelson and Campbell for masterminding the strategy and comms) is the perfect example of this.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

We have reached overdrive imho, the writing is on the wall for the spiteful part of the Labour party and they don't like it.

I'm voting for Starmer because the Tories are too shit to be even considered.

I agree. Though while I was delighted when they booted Corbyn out, as I said above personally I'd be fine with them letting Abbot stand. She isn't my brand of (New) Labour at all, but she's been mistreated and for the sake of just putting this shit behind them, it makes sense.

I was disgusted at the Tories when Johnson booted out the likes of Ken Clarke, so fair's fair, Abbott has apologised for that letter and admitted she was wrong, she deserves to contest the election.

 

[mexico1970]

I agree. Though while I was delighted when they booted Corbyn out, as I said above personally I'd be fine with them letting Abbot stand. She isn't my brand of (New) Labour at all, but she's been mistreated and for the sake of just putting this shit behind them, it makes sense.

I was disgusted at the Tories when Johnson booted out the likes of Ken Clarke, so fair's fair, Abbott has apologised for that letter and admitted she was wrong, she deserves to contest the election.

There needs to be different opinions within parties for genuine debate, no room for cults though which are dangerous.

The Tories moved in a bunch of vacuous idealogues and it has bit them on the backside, I am happy at present being a Starmer supporting Tory.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Are you really that dense?

George got in at Rochdale. Anything can happen in elections, just as they can in cup finals.