England v Bosnia & Herzegovina | Mon 3rd June, 19:45 | Friendly

supercity88 said:
Of course, and that's how it will always be. We all want England to play an attack minded formation that blows the opposition away, but when it doesn't everyone will jump on Southgate for not having the tactical nous to manage effectively.

It's not worth wasting your time on the keyboard managers. You can see from the BBC Sport feed this morning the completely polarised opinions on last night, certain players and England in general. I saw someone say it was stupid to risk the likes of Kane in a meaningless friendly, when it's obvious we have to build a level of fitness across the group and look at different options - and only about 3 players who might start in a "first 11" actually got on the pitch last night.
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I agree you cant judge much from last night but we saw Watkins fail what is surely his last test. Palmer and Eze looked bright and Grealish and Maddison were a level up when they came on so it was useful for thinning the herd.

The big issue with Southgate is we have seen how it goes every time in a tournament when we hit the good teams. Sit back, shit our selves and gift them the ball. Over and over. He hasnt done anything different. He has no idea how to change it when the tide turns. He gave Italy the Euros. Should have been sacked right then. We now seem to have a plethora of top class (a few world class) players but they are all forward thinking, attack minded players. We cant fit these in Southgates system and so the same story will repeat.
 
Crooked_rain said:
He is good. I don't think he's the best in Europe though, that's a bit far fetched.

And I still think Foden is a better player than him
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Both world class imo
Both young English kids smashing it on the biggest stage - why can’t footie fans just be happy for both of em? it’s great for England to have players like these coming through.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
every top manager in the world including Pep, pundits and former players acknowledges how good he is. regardless of the media hype.
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Completely agree, he’s a magnificent player now and could get very much better.. Whether or not he does depends on him, if he thinks he’s the finished article and the best around he’s not going to achieve his potential..
He needs to lay off the diving and shit housing a bit too .. !
 
Blue Til Death said:
Completely agree, he’s a magnificent player now and could get very much better.. Whether or not he does depends on him, if he thinks he’s the finished article and the best around he’s not going to achieve his potential..
He needs to lay off the diving and shit housing a bit too .. !
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He needs to be a bit humble and not expect the plum attacking midfield position.
The best combination (imo) would be Rice holding, Foden as the main attacking midfielder and Bellingham doing a box to box role. He would have to do a lot of work for the team like Bernado does when he plays that role for us.
 
super_city_si said:
I agree you cant judge much from last night but we saw Watkins fail what is surely his last test. Palmer and Eze looked bright and Grealish and Maddison were a level up when they came on so it was useful for thinning the herd.

The big issue with Southgate is we have seen how it goes every time in a tournament when we hit the good teams. Sit back, shit our selves and gift them the ball. Over and over. He hasnt done anything different. He has no idea how to change it when the tide turns. He gave Italy the Euros. Should have been sacked right then. We now seem to have a plethora of top class (a few world class) players but they are all forward thinking, attack minded players. We cant fit these in Southgates system and so the same story will repeat.
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I have a rough idea of who I think will be scrapped, depending on injuries/fitness of a few.

I don't think anyone could successfully argue Southgate is a master tactician, and he's clearly more concerned with conceding and losing than being proactive and winning. What was really sore about the Italy loss is that it was much the same as the Croatia loss in the World Cup. Getting to that semi final wasn't a great achievement. We lost to Belgium in the group, beat Colombia on pens and Sweden comfortably but then having taken the lead and seen them equalise made no effort to win that game and throwing Vardy on so late was criminal.

The run to the Euro's final was fantastic. We beat Germany. We hammered the Ukraine and then dug in to get the job done against Denmark. Again we go ahead but again we just completely fold to the pressure and have no answers to get out and stretch them. Again a wise but ageing defence was allowed to stand on halfway with no fear of pace in behind. We concede and then change things but purely to get to penalties.

Where I differ, is I do believe there was more tactical nous on display against the French. We bossed possession, had more shots than them and a missed penalty cost us going further. We successfully kept Mbappe quiet, and it was Griezmann that ended up being the difference but ultimately we did take them on toe-to-toe and caused them a lot of problems. We were more proactive and aggressive in that game, but the French got over the line.

The squad is good not great. Defensively there are issues. The midfield isn't stacked. We lack a true DM, because Rice is more box to box. We also don't have a lot of experience in the big games and winning things consistently. When you look back at the golden generation, they were genuinely in the top 5-10 in the world in their position generally and were competing for CL titles. Other than the City lads, and TAA the majority have been picking up losers medals in the minor cups.
 
Blue Til Death said:
Completely agree, he’s a magnificent player now and could get very much better.. Whether or not he does depends on him, if he thinks he’s the finished article and the best around he’s not going to achieve his potential..
He needs to lay off the diving and shit housing a bit too .. !
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Just out of interest...did he only start diving etc after he joined Madrid ?

If so I sort of understand it....
 
BlueHammer85 said:
We won ‘in spite’ off (whoever the manager is) means they can never really shake that off can they ?

It just means I hate the manager , I think he’s shit so the only reason we win is because of the players doing there own thing.
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You are right they can't shake it off, but it is based on performances against good sides. Either the manager cannot or will not get them playing decent football or the players are vastly overrated.
 
hilts said:
You are right they can't shake it off, but it is based on performances against good sides. Either the manager cannot or will not get them playing decent football or the players are vastly overrated.
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Or it’s international football and no country plays ‘scintillating’ stuff - especially at knock out stages when the margins are so tight, less cohesion as they’re not used to playing with each other and international sides tend to be more conservative.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Or it’s international football and no country plays ‘scintillating’ stuff - especially at knock out stages when the margins are so tight, less cohesion as they’re not used to playing with each other and international sides tend to be more conservative.
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Huge gap between scintillating and boring and safe as fuck. I'm still waiting for a Southgate fan to tell me which higher ranked team we have beaten in a major comp.

If you have never beaten an equally ranked or better side you cannot claim to be a decent manager. You are just relying on good players beating average players and getting lucky with the oppositions teams you face.
 
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