President Trump

SebastianBlue said:
- The continued dissolution, if not outright destruction, of what is left of American democratic institutions, as is the stated goal of the MAGA movement, and which Trump began in earnest in his first term

- The arrest or worse of perceived political enemies, opposition, and dissenters, including (ironically) calling for an carrying out political violence against opposition groups and protests, as he did during his first term and as consistently incited throughout his campaigns

- The stripping away of civil liberties for anyone deemed outside of the MAGA ideal, particularly removing most rights of women, immigrants (horrifically, as he did in his first term, I might add), and minority groups, primarily through the construction of a theocratic fascist state, which Trump and his cronies also set the foundation for in his first team and which they continue to allude to fulfilling in a second term

- Aligning the US with warmongering, murderous dictators like Putin and Kim, and strengthening ties to far-right, corrupt, murderous leaders likes Netanyahu and MBS, whilst weakening or even outright severing diplomatic and military support of current American allies, including the EU and Ukraine, and attempting to dissolve NATO, allowing Putin, Netanyahu, and others to continue their scorched earth wars of illegal annexation and genocide, which he began in his first term

- Starting an outright trade war (or conventional) war with China through horrifically bad economic and diplomatic action, which he again began in his first term

- Destroying what is left of the social welfare system in the US, accelerating income inequality, intensifying poverty, and strengthening the corporate and special interest grip on politics in america

- Repealing most voting laws protecting citizens from disenfranchisement, political retribution, and actual persecution for their political beliefs

- Cementing himself as the “King of America” based on his selected Supreme Court’s ruling on Presidential Immunity which is seemingly going to protect him from any accountability for his actions in the past or future

- Very likely refusing to leave after his second term is over (or installing one of his sons as president to create a political dynasty), ending any semblance of a democratic process for the election of government

- Further normalising political corruption not seen since the days of Nixon and enriching his family, businesses, and political allies using the apparatus of government

- Potentially intentionally instigating a low grade civil war in America

And those are just things he or his cronies have done or have said he or his cronies will do. There are many other things that could happen based on the reactions of other leaders and nations to his destructive policies and actions.

Hitler’s run to his truly horrific acts started in a similar fashion (minus first being elected, admittedly), including a failed insurrection that wasn’t dealt with properly and only lead to him becoming an even more powerful figure that was eventually elected leader before he and his cronies dismantled the democratic system to ensure he would stay in absolute power.
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thanks, you answered that far more exhaustively than I did :)
 
FlemishDuck said:
As all terms that can be used for the purpose of easy denuncification, its overused to that purpose. Januari 6 however is not something you can ignore. When mobs come into play (potentially armed mobs even) that can overpower local authority and force the regime, you are much in the fascist modus operandi where domination trough force and strenght is deemed a justified ideal.
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Not sure district, county or unitary councils have standing armies anymore. :)
 
We would fully expect that trump, when he wins, tries to become an authoritarian leader in the US trough such methods of corrupting law and the law system. And there is plenty of precedent, indication or reason to make that a very legit concern, lest the electorate is a bunch of utter naive fools when it regards to politics.
 
flook said:
How about withdrawal from the Paris climate accord? You probably agree (assuming you don't think climate change is a conspiracy theory, if you do then stop reading here), that that is a bad thing for us all. In addition he has already (in his previous term) removed a number of emissions limits on US industries, causing further environmental damage as a result.
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I think this is a given. He pulled out last time, so he'll do this immediately. SCOTUS have rescinded the agreement that agencies could pursue breaches, so they all now have to go through slow and expensive court processes.

It's a policy to help the rich now - the future problems it causes are not important to him. The car regulations he cancelled basically undid most of the progress made from Obama-era regulations.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Not sure district, county or unitary councils have standing armies anymore. :)
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Those who have studied the fascist rise to power, see among others a common element of a populist movement that grew large and was ultimately mobilized in great number to force the system to their hands. The Weimar republic per the Versailles treaty was only allowed to have 100.000 serving men and they were also supposed to be the country's police. Hitlers "brownshirts" grew to numbers well beyond that, hundreds of thousands, and then Hitler even had a lot of sympathizers among the army. This created the situation (or powervacuum) that while the state had nominal authority over the country, defacto effective control fell more and more with the brownshits and Hitler. By the time the 1936 ellections came around, the Brownshirts pretty much controlled the ellection process with armed millitants "organizing" the ballots.

Mussolini did a similar thing with his great march. Huge angry armed mobs are no joke.

Trump's abillety/tendency to want to be able to mobilize large numbers, regardless if it might consist in part even of armed KKK'rs or rednecks, is very concerning. Anger, hate, vitriol, instabillety, distrust and fear are all usefull to fan the flames so people would pick up their pitchforks and trump knows how to use it.
 
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FlemishDuck said:
We would fully expect that trump, when he wins, tries to become an authoritarian leader in the US trough such methods of corrupting law and the law system. And there is plenty of precedent, indication or reason to make that a very legit concern, lest the electorate is a bunch of utter naive fools when it regards to politics.
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I think one of his other direct targets will be the electoral system. Gerrymandering has already proved difficult to undo, and it'll just get worse.

It might turn into how competently they manage to do it.
 
i kne albert davy said:
I know they're trained for it but who knows how you'd react to being shot at never mind shot, not something that happens every day even in America. Sure some on here will have better knowledge but I thought they did pretty well perpetrator was dispatched in seconds and the security services surrounded him instantly which must take some balls when bullets are flying.
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The lady agent kept bending down to pick up his fucking hat then dropping it and picking it up again. Absolute amateur hour
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Whatever people might think about Trump, and personally I think the world would be a discernibly better and safer place without him, anyone thinking his assassination would have done anything other than to make matters even worse and divided in the US is wrong. And there would also almost certainly be severe consequences for the wider world following that.

History has shown us previously that political assassinations can unleash forces that cannot be contained or predicted.
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Assassination or attempted assassination, i think they equate. Both would and will leave a wake of turmoil and deeper divide. The latter has the door widely open for an another Trump reign and this time the shackles are off. Ukraine and possibly wider Europe are fucked.
 
Vester said:
Missed the part about the plan to kill millions, could you perhaps pinpoint where on the linked site its mentioned?
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Can you point me to the part of Hitler’s platform in the early 1930s that explicitly called for the mass murder of Jewish people?

His antisemitic rhetoric was clear and violent before he was elected, as is Trump’s now toward specific groups, but the explicit “Final Solution” for the Holocaust, was developed and implemented after he rose to power. Trump is even using the same terms and phrases that Hitler used during his campaign (to villainise and dehumanise Jewish people) to villainise and dehumanise immigrants, members of the media, and political opponents/dissenters. He will likely continue to do the same with women and LGBTQ+ people once he is in office and is free from what few restraints on his hate speech are left.

As he has shown over and over again, he will slowly ramp up the rhetoric until his supporters are generally in support of actions and policies that would have been opposed (or even unthinkable) in the past. Only some are waking up to those tactics now with recent Supreme Court decisions eliminating decades of hard fought civil rights gains.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Those who have studied the fascist rise to power, see among others a common element of a populist movement that grew large and was ultimately mobilized in great number to force the system to their hands. The Weimar republic per the Versailles treaty was only allowed to have 100.000 serving men and they were also supposed to be the country's police. Hitlers "brownshirts" grew to numbers well beyond that, hundreds of thousands, and then Hitler even had a lot of sympathizers among the army. This created the situation (or powervacuum) that while the state had nominal authority over the country, defacto effective control fell more and more with the brownshits and Hitler. By the time the 1936 ellections came around, the Brownshirts pretty much controlled the ellection process with armed millitants "organizing" the ballots.

Mussolini did a similar thing with his great march. Huge angry armed mobs are no joke.

Trump's abillety/tendency to want to be able to mobilize large numbers, regardless if it might consist in part even of armed KKK'rs or rednecks, is very concerning. Anger, hate, vitriol, instabillety, distrust and fear are all usefull to fan the flames so people would pick up their pitchforks and trump knows how to use it.
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I can't disagree with any of that. But what does it have to do with a glib joke about county councils not having standing armies?
 
Blue and true said:
Yes I have. And my point still stands, the separation of powers exist.

Project 2025 is a pipedream, and a democratic nation like the US won't allow themselves to be ruled by what would ostensibly be a dictator.
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"Pipedream" is a curious choice of word. Whose pipedream is it? Whose nightmare?
 
SebastianBlue said:
Can you point me to the part of Hitler’s platform in the early 1930s that explicitly called for the mass murder of Jewish people?

His antisemitic rhetoric was clear and violent before he was elected, as is Trump’s now toward specific groups, but the explicit “Final Solution” for the Holocaust, was developed and implemented after he rose to power. Trump is even using the same terms and phrases that Hitler used during his campaign (to villainise and dehumanise Jewish people) to villainise and dehumanise immigrants, members of the media, and political opponents/dissenters. He will likely continue to do the same with women and LGBTQ+ people once he is in office and is free from what few restraints on his hate speech are left.

As he has shown over and over again, he will slowly ramp up the rhetoric until his supporters are generally in support of actions and policies that would have been opposed (or even unthinkable) in the past. Only some are waking up to those tactics now with recent Supreme Court decisions eliminating decades of hard fought civil rights gains.
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He has already been president once and as far as I'm aware we saw no mass extincions of millions of immigrants, media, political opponents, women or LGBTQ+ during his 4 years in office. Do you think he and the government did this but managed to hide it from the public or that he just "pretended" to be nice the first 4 years to start the mass extincions in November if elected?

I'm not a Trump supporter, in fact I think its crazy that he can have so much support being the way that he is. But its claims and arguments like these, claiming that Trump is the same as HITLER, that makes the left sound like the insane ones to many undecided voters. Quite an accomplishment when its literally Donald the orange man Trump on the other side.
 
super_city_si said:
Assassination or attempted assassination, i think they equate. Both would and will leave a wake of turmoil and deeper divide. The latter has the door widely open for an another Trump reign and this time the shackles are off. Ukraine and possibly wider Europe are fucked.
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Fucked in what way? Genuine question not trying to be a smart arse.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Can you point me to the part of Hitler’s platform in the early 1930s that explicitly called for the mass murder of Jewish people?

His antisemitic rhetoric was clear and violent before he was elected, as is Trump’s now toward specific groups, but the explicit “Final Solution” for the Holocaust, was developed and implemented after he rose to power. Trump is even using the same terms and phrases that Hitler used during his campaign (to villainise and dehumanise Jewish people) to villainise and dehumanise immigrants, members of the media, and political opponents/dissenters. He will likely continue to do the same with women and LGBTQ+ people once he is in office and is free from what few restraints on his hate speech are left.

As he has shown over and over again, he will slowly ramp up the rhetoric until his supporters are generally in support of actions and policies that would have been opposed (or even unthinkable) in the past. Only some are waking up to those tactics now with recent Supreme Court decisions eliminating decades of hard fought civil rights gains.
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I dont get these comparisaons between Trump and Hitler. Hitler was 100% popular in his country and he rode that wave to be able to do whatever he pleased. Trump is nowhere near that. He cannot achieve that power and belief in his politics. This attempt on his life might just do that, but even then our media are free, always will be, they hate him and love him. Totally not nazi germany.

He can pick away at the fabric of democracy, but four years isnt enough for him to turn it into a totalitarian state or anything like that. He can achieve things for the Republicans, but not for himself and his power.

Is it only 4 years he can serve now or does the clock reset and he can do another 8? Maybe he could get away with changing that part of presidential law.
 
flook said:
Well the headline issue will be I suspect Americas withdrawal from NATO, ending the status quo which has kept the world free of nuclear conflict for a few decades now.

How about withdrawal from the Paris climate accord? You probably agree (assuming you don't think climate change is a conspiracy theory, if you do then stop reading here), that that is a bad thing for us all. In addition he has already (in his previous term) removed a number of emissions limits on US industries, causing further environmental damage as a result.

Other issues, oh I don't know, America is already edging towards a Handmaids Tale situation with the introduction of controls/bans on abortion, building walls along borders, insurrection in the Capital, and whilst that is a domestic matter, it still does concern me as a supporter of freedom of choice. (And please don't throw back that I'm advocating against that by supporting the removal of Trump by any means necessary, sometimes the end justifies the means)

As an aside, as President he extolled the killings of the leader of IS and at least 1 leading military figure in a sovereign nation (Iran). If he supports assassination of political adversaries on the international stage, why the outrage when he too is the subject of a politically motivated assassination.
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I understand that people that dont like Trump, dont agree with his political views and basically dislike everything about him. But I do think comparing him with Hitler because of the reasons listed above is just extremely disrespectful to the millions of families suffering from the Holocaust and/or WWII.
 
unicorn said:
It's because the Secret Service employs women, apparently. Woke etc etc.

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I don't think the women were the issue. The protocols looked pathetic.

The presumption there was only one shooter is idiotic. Perhaps they swept the place well enough to eliminate other potentialities. But still. Even the most basic training for any service person is to expect the unexpected.

Don't assume anything. Until Trump was in a hospital and you knew everyone around by name and rank, you continue as of the treat is present and imminent.


It looked amateurish to me :(
 
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