The Labour Government

kaz7 said:
That is disingenious but to be expected from him , a few trying to make a name for themselves , now fucked off for six months , good riddance
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Really?

Thats your take on it?

We need to get away from people supporting political parties as if they are football clubs.

There is no way these MPs should have been suspended for not voting as Starmer wanted, how is this "Change"?
 
Lowtower said:
Really?

Thats your take on it?

We need to get away from people supporting political parties as if they are football clubs.

There is no way these MPs should have been suspended for not voting as Starmer wanted, how is this "Change"?
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What has change got to do with it ? You are anti labour as are those liking your posts and posting negatives on every page , so there is no point trying to reason with any of you, you are not posting in good faith
 
kaz7 said:
What has change got to do with it ? You are anti labour as are those liking your posts and posting negatives on every page , so there is no point trying to reason with any of you
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I'm not anti-labour

I much prefer a Labour government than a Tory one, but I'm not pretending that everything they do and say is fantastic like some do.

I was a Labour party member, I door knocked, leafleted during times of when the Labour party offered real hope and change for the working class.

Some of you all have low standards if you think that promising one thing and delivering another is okay, or suspending people for voting for things like last night.

Its unhelpful that people like you see it as "Anti-Labour" when things are called out.
 
TinFoilHat said:
I wonder how long the suspensions will last?

I'll wager until parliament comes back off holiday in September when Starmer needs everyone back on board for a couple of bills that the Daily Heil will hit the nuclear button.
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Have they not said 6 months then will look at it after that?
 
Lowtower said:
I'm not anti-labour

I much prefer a Labour government than a Tory one, but I'm not pretending that everything they do and say is fantastic like some do.

I was a Labour party member, I door knocked, leafleted during times of when the Labour party offered real hope and change for the working class.

Some of you all have low standards if you think that promising one thing and delivering another is okay, or suspending people for voting for things like last night.

Its unhelpful that people like you see it as "Anti-Labour" when things are called out.
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Half the people on here who would call you anti-labour voted Tories at the previous election.
 
bluenova said:
It's been three weeks. We've not even had a budget.

If that's your logic, you could say that about absolutely everything the Tories did over the last 14 years.

Any public sector worker whose pay hasn't risen with inflation over the last 14 years? Unless Labour immediately give them all huge page rises, it's a Labour policy now.

I notice they haven't opened all the Sure Start centres again. Closing them is now a Labour policy
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Yesterday the Mail made a front page spread “Labour were allowing thousands of immigrants to enter the country” contrast that with my local newspaper front page spread, is a new family hub opening yesterday we have nine of them altogether trying to provide a “sure start” for babies and teenagers They are the future, priority for them is so important but the Mail are only interested in creating division.
My local newspaper gives mainly honest views working hard on truth. IMO Contrast that with papers like the Mail they could do so much good by pointing out that thousands of British people flock all over the world taking up residence in their second homes in the Bahamas or the Costa's.
That doesn’t suit their agenda of lowering tax and earning high salaries I’m sure labour will return all my hopes for a better future in time they will go for growth in the economy first and don’t need the far left or right trying to spoil it for me and mine they may never own their own homes like we have.

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Lowtower said:
Really?

Thats your take on it?

We need to get away from people supporting political parties as if they are football clubs.

There is no way these MPs should have been suspended for not voting as Starmer wanted, how is this "Change"?
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It's just one big circle is politics and debating it, there is nothing wrong with with different points of view within any party. There are 3 groups that continually fuck up any chance of a more mature approach to politics. The media, the people who have picked a side and feel the need to defend their side no matter what and the politicians themselves for partaking in this nonsense or not being strong enough to stand up to it.

It's a broad church one minute and suspensions the next, I'm surprised there weren't more than 7 tbh but hey ho. I'm not surprised at the hypocrisy from Starmers 'side' on here though.

If you pick sides and debate long enough on Bluemoon you inevitably become the villain. And for no reason whatsoever.
 
bluenova said:
I really hope it's not "soft" to prefer not to destroy the entire planet :)

WW2 and the atom bombs are an entirely different debate, from a very different time. Nuclear weapons are much more powerful than the atom bombs that were dropped at the end of WW2, and they're also available to both sides in any likely future conflict.

The debate about pressing the button is always about mutually assured destruction. There isn't a way in which you win a war against another nuclear power. By pressing the button, you just make sure everyone loses much more quickly.

And I stand by the comment, we're in a bizarre world, where we have to say we'd press the button supposedly to stop the other side - and I do understand that argument, and maybe it's true. However, if Russia, for example, had launched a full strike against Europe and the US, life is over for us. Anyone actually going ahead and pressing in retaliation, is simply murdering millions of innocent people for the sake of an absolutely pointless revenge. The leader who presses the button would be committing atrocities many, many times worse than anything the Nazis did.
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Putin could use nuclear weapons in Ukraine as Ukraine is not a nuclear armed country however he won't because he knows there's a chance that he'll get one back. It is a very clear red line for western governments but there's only two governments in Europe with nuclear weapons who could fire back.

It becomes a bit bleak for our allies if one government decides that it wouldn't use them. This is especially true given there's a strong chance that we'll soon get a military isolationist back in charge of the US who let's face it are more important than anything else when it comes to defence.

I understand what you're saying about mass murder and nope nobody wins or benefits by the actual act of pressing the button. There's a difference though between saying you don't want to use them and refusing to use them. The latter means you're completely unfit to govern in my opinion.
 
inbetween said:
Putin could use nuclear weapons in Ukraine as Ukraine is not a nuclear armed country however he won't because he knows there's a chance that he'll get one back. It is a very clear red line for western governments but there's only two governments in Europe with nuclear weapons who could fire back.

It becomes a bit bleak for our allies if one government decides that it wouldn't use them. This is especially true given there's a strong chance that we'll soon get a military isolationist back in charge of the US who let's face it are more important than anything else when it comes to defence.

I understand what you're saying about mass murder and nope nobody wins or benefits by the actual act of pressing the button. There's a difference though between saying you don't want to use them and refusing to use them. The latter means you're completely unfit to govern in my opinion.
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I am not sure we would retaliate with nuclear weapons if Putin fired them on Ukraine, but then the poster I'd replied to was talking about a debate prior to the invasion, so it was more the old MAD chestnut, of being fired upon ourselves.

But ultimately, as you say we're in a situation where you have to say you'd use them, and the expectation of our leaders is that they'd use them in retaliation. I just find it bizarre that you can lead most of the countries in the world, without having to pretend you're a psychopath, but the ones with the power to destroy the planet within the hour, have to have, or pretend to have those psychopathic tendencies. Feels more than a little ironic :)
 
bluenova said:
I am not sure we would retaliate with nuclear weapons if Putin fired them on Ukraine, but then the poster I'd replied to was talking about a debate prior to the invasion, so it was more the old MAD chestnut, of being fired upon ourselves.

But ultimately, as you say we're in a situation where you have to say you'd use them, and the expectation of our leaders is that they'd use them in retaliation. I just find it bizarre that you can lead most of the countries in the world, without having to pretend you're a psychopath, but the ones with the power to destroy the planet within the hour, have to have, or pretend to have those psychopathic tendencies. Feels more than a little ironic :)
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You have to remember that it isn't the west that is threatening to press any red button. We'd happily get rid of nuclear weapons completely if it weren't for others. That is probably not the policy of the US but it certainly would be in the UK given the choice.

Putin and Ukraine is the best example as it is only Putin who has threatened to use them. I don't mention Russia here because Russia is not Putin, Russia does not want nuclear war with the west but I have no idea what Putin wants and that's the real hallmark of a psychopath.

With this in mind we have to be ready because we have the capability and means to defend ourselves and our friends. It may not work but we have to be prepared to use it if we absolutely needed to. Wanting to do that is not psychopathic, it's what unfortunately makes us human.
 
Postman Pep said:
The same party from which a succession of Mp's have appeared in the media clutching their pearls about voter 'intimidation' over the last 3 weeks.

Chief culprit being this sweaty ****

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I can't say I'm sorry he's not in the Cabinet. This morning he was saying the Labour rebels had voted with "the odds and sods"...
 
Lowtower said:
Really?

Thats your take on it?

We need to get away from people supporting political parties as if they are football clubs.

There is no way these MPs should have been suspended for not voting as Starmer wanted, how is this "Change"?
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Simply, when you sign up as a candidate you agree to abide by the party whip. The trouble is, when you sign up for that, you don't know what party policy is on every issue.
 
Postman Pep said:
The same party from which a succession of Mp's have appeared in the media clutching their pearls about voter 'intimidation' over the last 3 weeks.

Chief culprit being this sweaty ****

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Was the radio interview because he's checked himself into a wellness retreat because he's still grieving the loss of his seat?

His voice was croaking, he's obviously not coping.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Was the radio interview because he's checked himself into a wellness retreat because he's still grieving the loss of his seat?

His voice was croaking, he's obviously not coping.
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Ashworth thought he had a job for life. A proper careerist politician who has his arse shown to him on election night.

He'll be back once a seat becomes available.
 
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