The Labour Government

Mr Kobayashi said:
Karl Marx favored inheritance taxes, on the grounds that dead people did not have property rights.

Here’s what he wrote: “A power to dispose of estates forever is manifestly absurd. The earth and the fullness of it belongs to every generation, and the preceding one can have no right to bind it up from posterity. Such extension of property is quite unnatural.”
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More socialist clap trap ;-)
 
Chippy_boy said:
sss

OK, didn't realise you were talking 2019.

But there absolutely is an argument that those with £500k+ estates are wealthy. Of course many are, but there are millions (literally) of people who have a home worth more than that, but is sometimes because they've lived in it for years and seen huge increases over that period. That does not necessarily mean they have a high income and are "well off". Half of the east end of London probably falls into that bracket!

And that is the problem with so called "Mansion taxes". First of all, a £500k house is not exactly a mansion these days, is it. And second it is a blunt tax instrument that takes no account of someone's ability to pay it.
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But if you die and leave a home worth over £500k then, by dint of the fact they’ve just been given a free house worth over £500k, they are immediately wealthy. They’ve just been given an asset that cost them zilch and it is worth over £500k. They haven’t paid a single penny in tax to gain possession of the asset. It’s been given to them free of charge.
And it absolutely should be taxable. Personally I’d throw in a further band of £1m, above which every penny is taxable at a rate of 100%.
Nobody, but nobody, should “need” a free gift worth more than £1m. Not when we have people sleeping on our streets, and people waiting years for crucial health treatment.

Tax these selfish bastards until the pips squeak.
 
mexico1970 said:
play-it.gif
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maxwellblue said:
I don't really go to pubs these days only wine bars.
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threespires said:
The vast majority of people with money need to get their heads round the fact that they haven't got it through any intrinsic merit, they've just got lucky. It's not something that people want to accept but that doesn't stop it being true and there's a metric shittonne of research to support this.

If a legitimately elected government comes along and wants to redistribute some of that wealth, well then you've just become a bit less lucky than you were before.

Before anyone accuses me of the politics of envy, my beneficiaries will be paying IHT and rightly so.
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Completely agree. The sustained increase in property values has created enormous wealth among a certain class of people who have had little to do with that outcome. That metric has created an egregiously unfair inbalance in our society between the generations that desperately needs tackling - and the only feasible way that can happen is to tax those assets in a way that isn’t currently in force.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Completely agree. The sustained increase in property values has created enormous wealth among a certain class of people who have had little to do with that outcome. That metric has created an egregiously unfair inbalance in our society between the generations that desperately needs tackling - and the only feasible way that can happen is to tax those assets in a way that isn’t currently in force.
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There must be some concern too about just how many people will inherit huge amounts and money and give up work when they do. Governments need people working and need people paying tax. Apparently 9 million people of working age in the UK were not working or claiming benefits in 2023.
 
hilts said:
You've always been a huge cock when it comes to money, anyhow carry on with your make believe scenarios you spoilt ****.
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Spoilt? Jesus Christ you are clueless. Genuinely, I mean that. You have no idea of my personal circumstances.
 
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Bluesince1979 said:
How are you measuring the ‘luck’ element?
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There was a thoughtful model that a few universities were using that was in the public domain for a fair while, last time I looked for it the link was broke but I'll try and find it. But if I just take my own life...

Born white western european male at a time when that was still like winning the lottery (still not a bad gig even today).

Born to working class parents who were determined that I had a better education and prospects than they did and were prepared to make sacrifices for that to happen. Something that didn't happen for a number of my equally capable friends.

Raised in a council house where there was surety of tenancy and so no real disruptions to family life. Despite also raising a severely disabled son, my parents managed to always keep the wheels on the road and a stable family environment.

Born at a time when social mobility was seen as important so able to get a free higher education and a means tested living allowance.

Through higher education, developed a more rounded understanding of what the world offered and without even being aware of the words, built up social and cultural capital that I was then able to use to gain some economic capital.

First good job I got, there were way better candidates than me but I just hit it off with the interviewers and they offered the job to me when it should probably have gone to others.

2 years into that job, the team I was leading made a fairly catastrophic error. Had my boss been the person I was working for 3 months earlier, I 100% know I'd have been thrown under the bus and fired. But my new boss told me to go home and do nothing while he peeled the MD off the roof.

A company I was working for was bought by a US company and in an early management meeting the simple fact I had a British accent meant that at the point everyone was arguing about something, my voice cut through and within a couple of years I had an exec position.

I could go on but I think the reality is that life is full of both big and small sliding door moments. I also think people often have access to a variety of social and cultural advantages that they don't even realise are advantages.

I'm doing ok but none of that's really down to me if I'm honest. I've messed up as many times as I've done a good job. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth but I was born into a loving environment with strong values at a time when a commitment to social mobility was peaking. I was able to take advantage of that and I've been in the right place at the right time at a number of points in my life and when things have gone wrong I've had always been blessed to have someone or something to fall back on.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
Tax these selfish bastards until the pips squeak.
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As a matter of interest, do you think that should extend to footballers? And club owners?

Moving on, I do question why the likes of Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos feel the need to amass and retain billions. But I have no such animosity against anyone whose amassed a few million.

It’s really none of my business. I rarely give them any thought and if I do, I usually think, well done, good on you. (Unless it’s Morrissey or Russell Brand). You see I am not a bitter or envious person who resents others better off than me. I feel no need to key someone’s Porsche. If they want to give to charity that’s great. If not, well it’s their money. I think we need to tax people fairly, not call them selfish bastards and rob them “until the pips squeak”. The well off in the vast majority, already pay more than their fare share IMO. It’s not like we have a linear taxation system. The top earners already pay 45% tax on their income whilst the least well off pay 20% on a smaller amount to start with, and get benefits as well sometimes. The top earners pay 10x, 20x, 50x more tax and get fuck all back in return but of course in many eyes on here, no amount is “enough”.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Completely agree. The sustained increase in property values has created enormous wealth among a certain class of people who have had little to do with that outcome. That metric has created an egregiously unfair inbalance in our society between the generations that desperately needs tackling - and the only feasible way that can happen is to tax those assets in a way that isn’t currently in force.
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Taxing those assets will make a gossamer-thin difference.
Building affordable housing (by the millions) would be much more efficient. And effective. IMHO.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Completely agree. The sustained increase in property values has created enormous wealth among a certain class of people who have had little to do with that outcome. That metric has created an egregiously unfair inbalance in our society between the generations that desperately needs tackling - and the only feasible way that can happen is to tax those assets in a way that isn’t currently in force.
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As an example, a few years ago I worked out that I’d paid approx 90 grand in mortgage payments over 14 years and still had about 70 grand left on my mortgage. That’s 160 grand and with a predicted sale price of 280 grand I was quids in to the tune of 120 grand.

Reality being that it was a huge saving plan where my 90 grand outlay made me 120 grand, meaning I basically paid fuck all for my accommodation over that period, taking inflation into account.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Depends how, and how much.
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No, not really. There are not enough super rich and anyways the super rich are extremely mobile and have huge flexibility in how they can manage their affairs to minimise their taxes. If taxation becomes too penal, they bugger off, leaving those of us on moderate incomes left behind having to pay even more.

From CNN: “The continuing exodus from the UK — 16,500 millionaires left between 2017 and 2023 — is part of a global mass migration of the rich that appears to be accelerating. The Henley Private Wealth Migration report found that 128,000 millionaires are set to relocate this year, beating last year’s record by 8,000.”

“Of the 15 places with most resident millionaires, the UK is suffering more than most — only China will lose more HNWIs (15,200) in 2024”
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Depends how, and how much.
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I think you could raise inheritance tax to “eye-watering” levels and it would barely shift the needle in terms of revenue.
We all seemingly want Nordic standards of healthcare etc with US income tax rates. Alas East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet'.
 
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