US Politics Thread

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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
There is no harm in exposing people to all sorts of views as long as you equip them to think for themselves through education. Once you find yourself wanting to filter or police views it suggests either a weakness in the opposing arguments or in that education. Probably a bit of both.

You always tend to find it is folk whose own viewpoint looks unlikely to prevail that cry about it. If Kamala was racing ahead in the polls I don't think anyone would care (in regard to US politics).
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But it's not that simple, nueroscience shows us that bad actors can manipulate even educated people by lying consistently and persistently. A truth or a possibility/hypothesis are not the same as a lie, it's the insistence on passing off lies as a valid 'viewpoint' that is fucking up public discourse. At the point we accept that 'alternative facts' can be used to substantiate fallacious arguments we are fucked because it's no longer a debate, it's technology, money, neuroscience and communications psychology allowing the best liars to win.
 
threespires said:
But it's not that simple, nueroscience shows us that bad actors can manipulate even educated people by lying consistently and persistently. A truth or a possibility/hypothesis are not the same as a lie, it's the insistence on passing off lies as a valid 'viewpoint' that is fucking up public discourse. At the point we accept that 'alternative facts' can be used to substantiate fallacious arguments we are fucked because it's no longer a debate, it's technology, money, neuroscience and communications psychology allowing the best liars to win.
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I'm sure you make a good point, but with specific regard to US politics I think the corporate ownership of all in Washington does a lot more to destabilise, distort and vanquish democracy than the media bias.
If the American people really want to see either party acting in the interest of the people rather than corporate donors then something needs to be done in terms of limiting amounts or sources of campaign funding to free politicians from the grasp of lobbyists.

I'm not saying it is necessarily the case, but if you do start to see significant amounts of 'educated people' on what you perceive as the wrong side of the debate then maybe they are correct, or at least have a valid point? Ultimately, if trump gets in then it will be because it is more than just the maga crazies that have voted for him.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I'm sure you make a good point, but with specific regard to US politics I think the corporate ownership of all in Washington does a lot more to destabilise, distort and vanquish democracy than the media bias.
If the American people really want to see either party acting in the interest of the people rather than corporate donors then something needs to be done in terms of limiting amounts or sources of campaign funding to free politicians from the grasp of lobbyists.

I'm not saying it is necessarily the case, but if you do start to see significant amounts of 'educated people' on what you perceive as the wrong side of the debate then maybe they are correct, or at least have a valid point? Ultimately, if trump gets in then it will be because it is more than just the maga crazies that have voted for him.
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I'm not saying there aren't other issues in play I was merely saying the remedy Isn't simply better education. You have to do something to address the systematic flow of misinformation, in fact I suspect our points are intersecting as the funding to deliver that constant flow has to come from somewhere and presumably that's the super PACs and lobbyimg groups you refer too.
 
KS55 said:
Surely not. The mind boggles. Betting not a good predictor.
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I know, I dont base that view on betting. I vehemently hope he doesnt win, but I think he is going to and it is mental that he is even allowed to try, but they are mental over there and their systems obviously do not work
 
KS55 said:
I’m sticking nervously to my prediction of a Harris win.
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His (betting/polling) lead is a lot narrower than it was over Hilary , and that turned out to in reality much lower in the end. I think Harris will win on popular vote but electoral college will probably get trump over the line.
 
I'm changing my mind every day over who is likely to win and who isn't. Currently I think Harris is making all the right moves and will attract enough neutral and dissatisfied republicans to win where it matters.
 
moomba said:
I'm changing my mind every day over who is likely to win and who isn't. Currently I think Harris is making all the right moves and will attract enough neutral and dissatisfied republicans to win where it matters.
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She needs to win Bigly to stop any legal challenges from the Mango Mussolini.
 
KS55 said:
I’m sticking nervously to my prediction of a Harris win.
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It's a weird scenario where polling says it's a dead heat and depending on how many right leaning polls you look at can swing the result from Harris to Trump. All of it is basically in the margin of error.

But look outside the polling to the fund raising and voter registration data and Harirs is killing him.

Voter odds favour Trump and I guess that is because he outperformed his polling in 2016 and 2020 although in the later race not by enough to win. But each one is so different, trump's first attempt he was the outsider and by the second it was mid covid and he was doing a terrible job. Then this race is 1st since Jan 6th and Roe v Wade and all the election denial stuff.

Very hard to call.
 
KS55 said:
I am baffled by Trump’s apparent favouritism.
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Yeah.

Some things don't add up. Like Arizona.

Biden won Arizona with 49.4% to 49.1%. Super close.

Kari Lake tried for Govenor in 2022 she got 49% of the vote with a hardcore Trump/maga offer but lost.

Shes now going for Arizona Senate seat. She's down 6 to 8 points depending on polls. So looking like a straight forward defeat. Both her and the dem are not incumbent so this is a straight up race between a dem and a Trumpy gop candidate. And you would expect anyone voting Trump there to also vote for Lake, she's all over fox and the same maga media as Trump.

The polling for potus is a dead heat Harris/ Trump.

Makes zero sense. How are the same voters not 100% aligned on the Senate seat as potus.
 
Gareth Barry Conlon said:
Yeah.

Some things don't add up. Like Arizona.

Biden won Arizona with 49.4% to 49.1%. Super close.

Kari Lake tried for Govenor in 2022 she got 49% of the vote with a hardcore Trump/maga offer but lost.

Shes now going for Arizona Senate seat. She's down 6 to 8 points depending on polls. So looking like a straight forward defeat. Both her and the dem are not incumbent so this is a straight up race between a dem and a Trumpy gop candidate. And you would expect anyone voting Trump there to also vote for Lake, she's all over fox and the same maga media as Trump.

The polling for potus is a dead heat Harris/ Trump.

Makes zero sense. How are the same voters not 100% aligned on the Senate seat as potus.
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Yanks could vote Trump in and 'balance it' with the Dems having both houses. Which will make it worse as he will use executive orders to take out every political opponent to take control of both using his newly appointed immunity.
 
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