US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

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mrbelfry said:
Re abortion: Doesn't repealing Roe v Wade place abortion rights in the remit of the individual states? I read some states were voting on abortion issues as well as the presidential election. Maybe there is a realpolitik answer here but doesn't that now provide a buffer between him and abortion rights?
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I posted on this earlier but there are lots of things they can do make it an effective ban, even if it’s not actually banned. Banning the medicine is one (most abortions are medical, meaning you just take a pill). They can prevent doctors from being trained in the procedure (withholding funds from state universities, etc.) or require certain licensing and insurance that makes it difficult . You can put certain laws around the actual facilities - they have to be within certain distance from hospital, etc.
 
Dax777 said:
Looking at the results in hindsight, the Democrats would probably have needed a transformational candidate ( an Obama or Clinton) type orator to give them a chance of winning.

In fairness, the built in dislike for Trump that many had, and the full throated support from the media that Democrats had made this 'seem' potentially closer than it really was...
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Dax777 said:
Bur the people simply stuck to their reality. It's the economy, stupid!
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Fair enough Dax. You stuck to your guns all along.
(Some just kept them handy in case he lost ;-) )

Do you think his policies will improve the American economy and how?
 
Fewer people appear to have voted Trump than in 2020. But a mass of people who turned out for the Democrats and Biden in 2020 did not turn out at all. What that tells me is that Trump's core base was going to vote for him not on the basis of what he says, but on the basis of, fantasmatically, what he is for them. I heard a clip from one of his supporters on the radio, this morning: “I voted for him because he's not a politician.” There you have it.
Conversely, Harris did not galvanise that huge chunk of people who are not hardcore Democrat voters and who may turn out or may not.

I really don't know what's up ahead. For America. Or for the world.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Fewer people appear to have voted Trump than in 2020. But a mass of people who turned out for the Democrats and Biden in 2020 did not turn out at all. What that tells me is that Trump's core base was going to vote for him not on the basis of what he says, but on the basis of, fantasmatically, what he is for them. I heard a clip from one of his supporters on the radio, this morning: “I voted for him because he's not a politician.” There you have it.
Conversely, Harris did not galvanise that huge chunk of people who are not hardcore Democrat voters and who may turn out or may not.

I really don't know what's up ahead. For America. Or for the world.
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We see this at a local level in my town. Whenever we vote to increase the school budgets, the same number of people always vote no. It’s the yes vote that varies and thus it’s totally dependent on turnout. (And in my town, the no vote aligns nearly exactly with the R vote).
 
Middedon said:
I posted on this earlier but there are lots of things they can do make it an effective ban, even if it’s not actually banned. Banning the medicine is one (most abortions are medical, meaning you just take a pill). They can prevent doctors from being trained in the procedure (withholding funds from state universities, etc.) or require certain licensing and insurance that makes it difficult . You can put certain laws around the actual facilities - they have to be within certain distance from hospital, etc.
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As another woman who has gone through a similar procedure to yourself (many years ago) , I completely empathize with you.
The whole procedure is horrific. It leaves you drained, distraught and bereft.
I've never forgotten it, and it still gives me nightmares

Yet I also think that "abortion on demand" is also horrific. I probably feel that way because of what I went through, and can't understand how some women go down that other route.

There needs to be a balance
 
Middedon said:
I posted on this earlier but there are lots of things they can do make it an effective ban, even if it’s not actually banned. Banning the medicine is one (most abortions are medical, meaning you just take a pill). They can prevent doctors from being trained in the procedure (withholding funds from state universities, etc.) or require certain licensing and insurance that makes it difficult . You can put certain laws around the actual facilities - they have to be within certain distance from hospital, etc.
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There was one law enacted in one state (probably Texas) that required a hospital bed (the big thing with lots of motors and buttons and the like) rather than a gurney, had to be able to be moved from room to room.

This meant most abortion clinics would have to be rebuilt, extensively remodeled, or moved. These places often run on donations and funds from Planned Parenthood.

You can remove medical care up to and including abortion from state medical policies (insurance is state-regulated in America, so there are 50 different standards for ALL insurance!).

You can ban the medicine, which was recently tried under the auspices of it was not tested on a certain cohort and could be dangerous to the mother…in this case under 18s who had been the victims of rape or incest. Many drugs are not tested on minors/children and can only be used by adults, unless the FDA makes an exception.

What do you think will happen to any such exceptions now?

The list is endless, but it can mean changing one line, or even one word, in a current law.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
AGAIN, an extrapolation that is incorrect.

The American education system is a shambles, with the red states faring the absolute worst. Coincidence? There’s a reason many conservatives want to abolish the Department of Education and have all school funding from the state level…and this result helps prove it.

And, I’m not saying I know what is best for them, I’m pointing out what they have failed to understand from the facts they choose to ignore, or do not simply care to know, or simply cannot understand.

These aren’t my facts, they’re from BLS, the Federal Reserve, leading economic indicators, and literal prices in front of their face. But, as if by magic, even facts are no longer facts, when the Cult Leader says they’re not true!
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Okay. You are right!
 
mackenzie said:
As another woman who has gone through a similar procedure to yourself (many years ago) , I completely empathize with you.
The whole procedure is horrific. It leaves you drained, distraught and bereft.
I've never forgotten it, and it still gives me nightmares

Yet I also think that "abortion on demand" is also horrific. I probably feel that way because of what I went through, and can't understand how some women go down that other route.

There needs to be a balance
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A lot is in the “marketing” of the procedure.

I know of no-one who is “Pro-Abortion,” but I know many, many, many people who are Pro-Choice!

An abortion is a wrenching, life altering decision taken under the often worst circumstances a woman has ever faced. However, it has been made to sound like it is being widely used as a last and final source of contraception for women who are immoral or amoral.

12 years ago, during the Republican Primaries, we got the old, “You don’t need THE pill, you just need A pill!” from some FOC Billionaire supporter of a right wing Evangelical!



UFB in the 21st century, but this is Murica!
 
mackenzie said:
As another woman who has gone through a similar procedure to yourself (many years ago) , I completely empathize with you.
The whole procedure is horrific. It leaves you drained, distraught and bereft.
I've never forgotten it, and it still gives me nightmares

Yet I also think that "abortion on demand" is also horrific. I probably feel that way because of what I went through, and can't understand how some women go down that other route.

There needs to be a balance
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I believe that abortion on demand is mostly a myth of the right. But the one way to make it nearly non existent is to make access to birth control and sex education easy and affordable. When you get rid of that, it’s clear it’s not really about the abortions.

Also, most feelings about abortion are imposed upon women by society. Thats why we don’t talk about it - and why many say abortion rights will never be as successful as gay rights because it’s much easier to keep in the shadows. So I’m always happy when other women share - thank you. I am glad we got to make the decisions that were right for us and our families.
 
mackenzie said:
If Biden had stepped down earlier, and it hadn't been Harris as the only realistic choice at such short notice, then I'm sure the Dems would have had a much better chance.

She never really established herself as a politician in her own right. And being "nice" and peddling "aspirational" empty quotes isn't enough to lead.

I know I'm probably wrong but, as an outsider here, she always came across as a bit of a vacuum.
.
Trump isn't the answer either, and I don't think the divide over there is going to get any better.

Looking forward to the USA getting it's act back together in 2028.
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Very good point. Trump isn't the the answer, but he did put forward more policies than Kamala who was very one note on her small business line.

I think the first month harmed her not doing much PR and the fact that she wasn't very good at it when she did appear.

2028 will probably be no different unless the Democrats stop with the identity politics. If they can manage that, maybe it will be a different outcome.
 
Middedon said:
I believe that abortion on demand is mostly a myth of the right. But the one way to make it nearly non existent is to make access to birth control and sex education easy and affordable. When you get rid of that, it’s clear it’s not really about the abortions.

Also, most feelings about abortion are imposed upon women by society. Thats why we don’t talk about it - and why many say abortion rights will never be as successful as gay rights because it’s much easier to keep in the shadows. So I’m always happy when other women share - thank you. I am glad we got to make the decisions that were right for us and our families.
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I don't think abortion on demand is a myth at all. Certainly not here in the UK. It exists and that saddens me.
Contraception was supposed to liberate women, and it did so. Yet not always in the way we expected, and it actually denigrated us in other ways.
It's definitely for another discussion though, and yes ..we made the right decision for both of us and our families.

Thanks xx
 
Got Wolf Blitzer on at mo and he looks like a man who'd be up for committing homicide.
 
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