Russian invasion of Ukraine

BlueAnorak said:
Bollox and you know it.
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Correct.
Whether by direct military action, proxy wars, biological attacks, radioactive chemical attacks or social media bots, Russia has been attacking the west regularly for the last 20 years in various attempts to demonstrate his reach or destabilise democracies. Ukraine is just another manifestation of his long term plan to build a new sphere of influence covering places well outside Russia. He’s bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine and the west needs to continue to back them to ensure he doesn’t achieve his objective, and that’s with or without help from Trump’s USA.
 
BlueAnorak said:
You are wrong and you know it.
As important, Iran, North Korea and China will be emboldened - so Taiwan will be attacked and a Korean war (pt II) will probably begin.
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BTW the Korean war was ended by a truce - there was no peace treaty so technically the UK will be at war with North Korea it that starts up again.Diplomatic relations were only established in 2000 on this precept.
 
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jrb said:
It’s slowly escalating into a direct Russia and NATO war.

The rhetoric on here is admirable, but if that war happens there will be a lot of arse twitching on here, across Europe, Russia, and around the world.

All it takes is for Putin to order a missile strike on a NATO country or countries in retaliation. He’s capable enough, deluded enough, and mad enough to do that. And the next thing will be NATO missile strikes on Russia, and troops on Ukrainian soil, just as Putin predicted to the Russian people.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has previously warned Western nations against such a move, saying it would represent the Nato military alliance's "direct participation" in the Ukraine war.
He was yet to comment on Sunday's reports although other senior Kremlin politicians described it as a serious escalation.

www.bbc.co.uk

Biden allows Ukraine to strike inside Russia with long-range missiles

The move is a major change in US policy after months of entreaties from Kyiv.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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The ****’s recent conversation with Scholtz should tell you everything about what we are dealing with here. He said any ‘deal’ (which he won’t even keep to) has to be shaped by territorial reality (which means him keeping what he’s stolen) and would be conditional on Ukraine not being in NATO (which means he’s free to come back for more when he’s replenished his military capability in a few years).

Anyone agreeing to that deal is a stupid ****.

Plus, he’s both deluded and completely untrustworthy. You simply can’t negotiate with someone like that.
 
west didsblue said:
Correct.
Whether by direct military action, proxy wars, biological attacks, radioactive chemical attacks or social media bots, Russia has been attacking the west regularly for the last 20 years in various attempts to demonstrate his reach or destabilise democracies. Ukraine is just another manifestation of his long term plan to build a new sphere of influence covering places well outside Russia. He’s bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine and the west needs to continue to back them to ensure he doesn’t achieve his objective, and that’s with or without help from Trump’s USA.
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And how far has Putin and Russia got?

1/4 of the way across Ukraine, slowly destroying Russia’s armed forces and economy, and creating a bigger NATO border and force.

It really hasn’t worked, has it.
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
The ****’s recent conversation with Scholtz should tell you everything about what we are dealing with here. He said any ‘deal’ (which he won’t even keep to) has to be shaped by territorial reality (which means him keeping what he’s stolen) and would be conditional on Ukraine not being in NATO (which means he’s free to come back for more when he’s replenished his military capability in a few years).

Anyone agreeing to that deal is a stupid ****.

Plus, he’s both deluded and completely untrustworthy. You simply can’t negotiate with someone like that.
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Putin can say what he wants. Do you think ‘all the European leaders belonging to NATO’ are going to back down to him and to agree to what he wants? Come on!
 
BTH said:
Putin's totally mad but IMO he's not mad enough to fire directly on a NATO country IMO, given NATO's greater capability.
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I’m not convinced that given the way the war in Ukraine has gone for Russia that any order by Putin to launch nukes would get through the protocols. Think his power has ebbed. Not fatally, but still materially in terms of such a big call
as that.
 
west didsblue said:
Correct.
Whether by direct military action, proxy wars, biological attacks, radioactive chemical attacks or social media bots, Russia has been attacking the west regularly for the last 20 years in various attempts to demonstrate his reach or destabilise democracies. Ukraine is just another manifestation of his long term plan to build a new sphere of influence covering places well outside Russia. He’s bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine and the west needs to continue to back them to ensure he doesn’t achieve his objective, and that’s with or without help from Trump’s USA.
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Astonishing that people cannot see this monster for what he is.
 
jrb said:
And how far has Putin and Russia got?

1/4 of the way across Ukraine, slowly destroying Russia’s armed forces and economy, and creating a bigger NATO border and force.

It really hasn’t worked, has it.
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You’ve not really refuted my point that Putin has been launching attacks by various means on the west for 20 years. Just because he’s bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine doesn’t mean he’s going to sit back and not do anything else.
 
west didsblue said:
You’ve not really refuted my point that Putin has been launching attacks by various means on the west for 20 years. Just because he’s bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine doesn’t mean he’s going to sit back and not do anything else.
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The **** won’t be able to help himself.

This needs finishing now.
 
west didsblue said:
You’ve not really refuted my point that Putin has been launching attacks by various means on the west for 20 years. Just because he’s bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine doesn’t mean he’s going to sit back and not do anything else.
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Yes he has. Where has it got him? What has he got to show for it? What else can he do, attack NATO, indirectly or directly? And the outcome of that will be what, a possible nuclear war, that even he isn’t mad enough to start, knowing the outcome.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Don’t you get it? The **** will never be happy. He’ll always want more. No matter how much he has.
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He won’t be around for ever.

His lasting legacy won’t be a nuclear war.

Besides him, there are numerous people around him, be it in Russia, or be it abroad, that won’t let a nuclear war happen.

Bar Ukraine, if he does, what other country can Putin take?
 
jrb said:
Yes he has. Where has it got him? What has he got to show for it? What else can he do, attack NATO, indirectly or directly? And the outcome of that will be what, a possible nuclear war, that even he isn’t mad enough to start, knowing the outcome.
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Not sure what the relevance of your post is. None of what you’ve said backs up your assertion that Putin just wants Ukraine and nothing else. He will clearly carry on causing problems around the world even if he backs off from full scale invasions in the future, which he won’t if he’s allowed to keep some of Ukraine.
 
jrb said:
He won’t be around for ever.

His lasting legacy won’t be a nuclear war.

Besides him, there are numerous people around him, be it in Russia, or be it abroad, that won’t let a nuclear war happen.

Bar Ukraine, if he does, what other country can Putin take?
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Moldova would be next. Would have said Georgia but they’ve just voted in a Putin puppet, presumably following interference by Russia.
 
It comes down to this.

Does Putin want a direct war with NATO (and America) over Ukraine?

I don’t know, only he does.
 
west didsblue said:
Not sure what the relevance of your post is. None of what you’ve said backs up your assertion that Putin just wants Ukraine and nothing else. He will clearly carry on causing problems around the world even if he backs off from full scale invasions in the future, which he won’t if he’s allowed to keep some of Ukraine.
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The world has always been full of dictators causing problems around the world, but those problems haven’t spilled out into a possible world war.

The Cuban Missile crisis.
America v North Vietnam.(China)
Isreal v Egypt.
Iraq v America and the UK.
Israel v Iran and it’s proxies.
Russia v Ukraine.
Etc.

Before the war started in ernest, Russia already controlled parts of Ukraine. The war was started by Putin to try and get the whole of Ukraine under Russian control.
 
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west didsblue said:
Moldova would be next. Would have said Georgia but they’ve just voted in a Putin puppet, presumably following interference by Russia.
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Even with Russian interference, Moldova still voted for pro EU.

For Russia and their forces to get to Moldova, it has to take and to
occupy the South West of Ukraine first.

1731894100858.png
 
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