West Ham (H) | PL | Post Match Thread

[JamesMCFC]

Tbf you should be able to bring on experienced professionals at 4-0 to wind the clock down
But no one could predict how off it they both were
And yes if they had got a second a Feynoord was on the cards
Our structure had completely evaporated
It’s time for a big thank you to few and we go again

Any City fan who has been watching us this season would know Walker and Gundo have been off it all season.

Nothing good was ever going to come about when they came on.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

Better, but as Pep says, still nowhere near our "old" selves. I believe Micah said (on MotD?) that City were still not good enough out of possession and this was glaringly obvious. The "hole" in midfield, which was such a feature in Pellegrini's early days and which was only solved by Ferna's emergence as a world class DM, has reappeared now Rodri's out. West Ham were the latest team to find us so easy to play through. If Kova is Rodri's stand in he might find it better not to go too far up field.

On the plus side we improved during the match and began to move the ball much quicker and stopped playing walking football! At times we looked like City! The second goal was a good example, but what was most impressive was Savinho's part in it. He started on the left and so wasn't always cutting inside into traffic. And he beat his man, didn't check back to beat him 2 or 3 times for good measure but showed him a clean pair of heels and put in a beautiful, first time cross which our striking Viking ate for lunch. Similarly for the third Savinho saw a gap, sprinted into it and then looked for Haaland rather than trying to take on the entire West Ham team. Haaland must have been thrilled that, at long last, someone wanted to play with him!

So, still a long way to go, but signs of progress. What we need now is a fully fit back 4 and someone (in the January window?) to play effectively as a deep(er) lying midfielder until Rodri is back and on fire again.

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

Any City fan who has been watching us this season would know Walker and Gundo have been off it all season.

Nothing good was ever going to come about when they came on.

He has to protect Kovacic, he's made of glass and if he gets injured were fucked. God knows what he brought Walker on for and shuffled all the defence around. Just drop JSP in for 20 minutes while we're 4 nil up.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I saw that as well. Im still pissed off with Pep bringing on Gundo and Walker.
That killed our game, we went to pieces and had West Ham been able to bury their chances we could have ended up with another Feyanord.
Why will he not play Mcatee ? or any youngster for that matter.

I did do another post about how to a certain degree Pep’s hands are tied. We know he won’t play kids, just not how he works, so in order to look after Kova he brings on Gundo as it’s his only established senior pro option, horrific. He then tries to protect Ake by bringing on only available senior pro defender Walker, who is equally horrific.

I don’t like saying it, and I’m praying we get a couple of bodies in before we get to the Chelsea game, but mark my words and bookmark this post if you like, but I predict we will get fucking slaughtered by at least one of the top teams we play in the run through Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle & Liverpool.

 

[JamesMCFC]

It was worrying how teams just bypass our midfield like its none existent.

Any other team who were competent would have beat us or at least drew yesterday.

Attacking we look a lot better which is good signs.

Anyone else worried about we seemed to have lost confidence or belief when passing out from the back when Walker and Gundogan came on? The team were terrified of losing the ball.

We desperately need a right back and 2 CM's in Jan and we need them before the Brentford game

 

[SamBlue]

Two very poor games and two extremely good results. It was very clear how just one player with good individual skills can affect the game the way Savinho did yesterday.
I am still of opinion Pep is responsible for many of our failings this season and it is up to him to find a solution.
How's the weather up north, I was coming back into some steady and sludgy snowfall down south, but it is much warmer this morning with rain only.

 

[IrishBloodEnglishHeart]

I can't be arsed m8. You're on one and it's Sunday morning.

I’m on one? Haha. Okay mate; have a good Sunday.

 

[IrishBloodEnglishHeart]

I was sat nearby in 105. The lad shouted something along the lines of, ‘Oi Walker you ****, don’t moan at McAtee that was your fucking fault, you prick… the pass was shit you ****… you’ve been shit for months… driving up and down the country to see all your kids instead of concreting on football, fuck off, you prick’.

A few around him shouted, ‘woah woah’ ‘eyar pack it in mate’.

De Bruyne shouted, ‘oh, stop, oh’.

Walker didn’t react.

He got all that Lord of the Rings out before someone said something hahahahw Course mate!

Assuming that’s how you feel about him if you’ve gone to the effort to make all that up?

 

[Yue Wollongong]

Watched the full replay on City+. The game has two parts, one is the first 60 minutes and the other one is after Kova and Ake were subbed off. The first part we played well and has a lot of new tactics and formation change in the game that I never seen in the last two months.

The second part look similar to what we were in the last two months except that we were not holding a high back line. And despite we were not able to thread any passes together, the match was still quite safe. Technically there is few player being as skilful as Kova in controlling and transitioning the ball in tight space, and no other City player bar Dias can command the defence line and take care of every single cross in. So quite understandable the difference between the two parts of the game. Walker and Gundo came in to make sure Kova and Ake are not injured. They don’t deserve blame. They settle with being the bench players and came in to help key players rest. Maybe they earn too much for the performance but it is another level of discussion and everything was by contract. Everyone here are free to try to sign that kind of contract too and see if you deserve it by the club.

A bit interesting part is Jack Grealish. He seems enjoying being on the pitch just to see the game off. Usually bench players want to prove something or make it obvious that it is their obligation to waste time. Jack seemed enjoying it, playing time wasting with heart. He raised professionalism to another level.

I hope people don’t hype a player or two for a particular good game. It is the system that won the game. Pep redesigned the system in recent two three games. City had much more variety in attack in recent games and maintained connection between attacking and defending personnels. It seems falling apart when Kova left but Pep must make sure Gundo can replace (sort of) Kova in the system for the worst case scenario. He must experiment and play Gundo there as there is no time for wait-and-see.

And a few words about the fans. Football has never been a simple “buy the best players and wins must follow” style as so many fans seem to resort to. It is the club culture that led to success. Trophies only come when they are ripe. And up and downs are the inevitable and the charm of football. Every season Pep were dealing with some sort of setbacks and come out good at the end. But when the team is really down, some fans keep supporting and some fans demand total rebuild and that is where the club culture manifests.

 

[B\connellblue]

I did do another post about how to a certain degree Pep’s hands are tied. We know he won’t play kids, just not how he works, so in order to look after Kova he brings on Gundo as it’s his only established senior pro option, horrific. He then tries to protect Ake by bringing on only available senior pro defender Walker, who is equally horrific.

I don’t like saying it, and I’m praying we get a couple of bodies in before we get to the Chelsea game, but mark my words and bookmark this post if you like, but I predict we will get fucking slaughtered by at least one of the top teams we play in the run through Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle & Liverpool.

We won't get slaughtered by Chelsea anyway . The wheels are well and truly off there. In fact we won't get slaughtered by any of them if Pep does his job properly and sets us up to be difficult to play through. Unfortunately he's unlikely to do that as he's just too stubborn. Yesterday a shining example. Walker and Gundog should not have come on. Give youth a chance Pep.

 

[Blue Mist]

I presume the new tactic of hoofing a goal kick out of play somewhere near Pep is because we don't trust ourselves to play out from the back.

We really are in strange times.

 

[ArniArason]

I presume the new tactic of hoofing a goal kick out of play somewhere near Pep is because we don't trust ourselves to play out from the back.

We really are in strange times.

Bit harsh. That happened a few times yesterday, but sometimes it worked when Haaland flicked it back in field. At the end of the day, we have been low on confidence and playing intricate football from the back has been forcing errors from our defence in dangerous areas. I'm happy for Pep or the players to try and be a bit more direct given the circumstances.

 

[CityDean]

Defensively still a lot to be desired, but offensively we are looking decent again. Savio needs to be kept on the left, his level has gone up significantly since being switched. Nice to get back to back wins and also to see Erling getting his swagger back. Onwards and upwards. Season not over yet!! Come on the boys

 

[asahartford1]

I presume the new tactic of hoofing a goal kick out of play somewhere near Pep is because we don't trust ourselves to play out from the back.

We really are in strange times.

Decision making is often the crucial factor in winning or losing.

Playing out from the back depends on midfielders finding the space to receive the ball combined with the keepers ability to deliver those passes. Without Ederson or Rodri those two essential components are significantly reduced.

If the Decision making is to clear the lines, even if it means losing possession I can understand that.

 

[Vic]

He got all that Lord of the Rings out before someone said something hahahahw Course mate!

Assuming that’s how you feel about him if you’ve gone to the effort to make all that up?

Definitely on one. Ask what was said, get it (corroborating an earlier version) and call someone a liar. Give it a Sunday rest, please.

 

[IrishBloodEnglishHeart]

Definitely on one. Ask what was said, get it (corroborating an earlier version) and call someone a liar. Give it a Sunday rest, please.

The more you reply the more I’m going to reply.

If you want to “give it a Sunday rest” stop replying to me. Please.

IF a lad managed to get off 6 or 7 insults without anyone stepping in, yes it’s out of order, but I’d be more worried that no City fan said anything for 10 minutes. IF.

 

[Ajm1985]

The MOTD analysis was surprisingly spot on. Everyone to slow in the press; Kovacic not aware enough/over eager in his press; no legs in midfield.

Also, what was Bernardo doing for their goal? Fluffed the pass, stayed in the defensive line rather than step into midfield and then left Fullkrug to run off him. Piss poor

 

[Platt Lane 59]

Decision making is often the crucial factor in winning or losing.

Playing out from the back depends on midfielders finding the space to receive the ball combined with the keepers ability to deliver those passes. Without Ederson or Rodri those two essential components are significantly reduced.

If the Decision making is to clear the lines, even if it means losing possession I can understand that.

I feel City's disappointing performances this season is largely due to City being predictable and playing slow, possession-based football.
Often, our creative players are no longer taking risks, but passing sideways and often backwards. Bernardo & Phil certainly seem less confident this season.
Didn't see the game yesterday (only on MOTD), but perhaps Pep has finally decided the team needs to mix things up ?
All defenders are more nervous about unpredictability. A long ball, over the top, with the pace and strength of Big Erl (and Savinho & Doku's speed), is a good option.
Playing out from the back seems less viable with Ortega in goals.
City need to play a quicker, energetic and a more risky style of football, in my opinion.
Most other clubs (Bournemouth and Brighton are successful examples) are doing it this season...

 

[chickaroon]

You are correct mate, nothing wrong with criticism of players/team, Pep did himself after the game by saying we are nowhere near the City we usually are.

What frustrates me and I think some others is the same roughly about 10 posters who post the same negative shite in each and every match day thread, some of its truly weird.

Criticise when it’s needed as today even though we won comfortably enough, but remember these same players have given us everything over the past seasons and there is no need to rip them apart when they are clearly struggling, some of the things said are fucking disgraceful!

It is possible to criticise and still get behind the team, no one has to dismantle the players as is currently happening with Walker, Gundogan and KDB. In my mind three absolute legends of the club who are definitely struggling and deserve a large amount of the current criticism, but also do not deserve to be spoken about as if they are some journeymen players we have just brought in this season.

I agree.

 

[Jazzyblue]

I was sat nearby in 105. The lad shouted something along the lines of, ‘Oi Walker you ****, don’t moan at McAtee that was your fucking fault, you prick… the pass was shit you ****… you’ve been shit for months… driving up and down the country to see all your kids instead of concreting on football, fuck off, you prick’.

A few around him shouted, ‘woah woah’ ‘eyar pack it in mate’.

De Bruyne shouted, ‘oh, stop, oh’.

Walker didn’t react.

Can’t stand people who go the ground to abuse our players like that. Is it the gear? Leave the dressing downs to Pep FFS