Everton Thread | 2024/25

dennishasdoneit said:
Arsenal ? Weren't they supposed to he relegated in 1900 or something but paid cash to ensure other league chairmen voted so spurs would not be promoted and take their place I can't remember the full story ,others on here will know the full facts ,save to say rivalry between the two teams goes back a long way.
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Close.

They finished 5th in the 1914-15 season, the first division was being expanded to 22 but Arsenal got the vote rather than other teams. The below doesn't help to dismiss there has always been a "red cartel" :)

This is from Wiki

en.wikipedia.org

History of Arsenal F.C. (1886–1966) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

"The club controversially rejoined the First Division in 1919,despite having only finished sixth in 1914-15, the last season of competitive football before the First World War — although an error in the calculation of goal average meant Arsenal had actually finished fifth, an error which was corrected by the Football League in 1975.

The First Division was being expanded from 20 teams to 22, and the two new entrants were to be elected at an AGM of the Football League. On past precedent the two places would be given to the two clubs that would otherwise have been relegated, namely Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspur. Instead one of the extra places was awarded to Chelsea and a ballot was called for the remaining place.

The candidates included 20th-placed Tottenham and, from the Second Division, Barnsley (who had finished third); Wolverhampton Wanderers, (fourth); Birmingham (fifth, later amended to sixth); Arsenal; Hull City (seventh); and Nottingham Forest (eighth).

The League voted to promote sixth-placed Arsenal, for reasons of history over merit; Norris argued that Arsenal be promoted for their "long service to league football", having been the first League club from the South. The League board agreed; Arsenal received 18 votes, Tottenham 8, Barnsley 5 and Wolves 4, with a further 6 votes shared between the other clubs.

The announcement of the vote reportedly caught all the clubs, except Arsenal, unawares and the affair is a major contributing factor to the rivalry which has fuelled the long-standing enmity between Arsenal and Tottenham. There is also an inconsistency in the argument – if "long service to league football" was the criterion for promoting Arsenal instead of Tottenham then Wolverhampton Wanderers, who finished two points ahead of Arsenal and were founder members of the Football League, would appear to have had a stronger claim. It has been alleged that this was due to backroom deals or even outright bribery by Sir Henry Norris,colluding with his friend John McKenna, the chairman of Liverpool and the Football League, who recommended Arsenal's promotion at the AGM.

No conclusive proof of wrongdoing has come to light, though other aspects of Norris's financial dealings unrelated to the promotion controversy have fuelled speculation on the matter; Norris resigned as chairman and left the club in 1929, having been found guilty by the Football Association of financial irregularities; he was found to have misused his expenses account, and to have pocketed the proceeds of the sale of the Arsenal team bus.

Regardless of the circumstances of their promotion, Arsenal have remained in the top division since 1919, and as a result hold the English record for the longest unbroken stretch of top-flight football. There appear to be no extant records of the meetings which elected Arsenal to the First Division in 1919, however the book Making the Arsenal proposes a different reason for their election in that year, arguing that match-fixing issues from the final year of football before the war (1914–15) were used by Norris as a weapon in his battle to get Arsenal promoted. He demanded that Liverpool and Manchester United (some of whose players had been found guilty of match fixing) be punished by relegation or expulsion, and threatened to organise a breakaway from the league by Midlands and southern clubs if nothing was done. To placate him the League offered Arsenal a place in the First Division."
 
jimharri said:
How are the Everton forums taking this news? From memory, they pretty much wanted him out the last time.
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Generally mixed I'd say - poll on Grand Old Team has
23.5 % yes
35.4 % no
41% meh needs must
Personally I don't want him back
We didn't end up with the previous manager's by accident. Few were lining up for the job and nothing has changed. If Moyes is the best candidate available he's possibly the only person interested
 
shackattack said:
Generally mixed I'd say - poll on Grand Old Team has
23.5 % yes
35.4 % no
41% meh needs must
Personally I don't want him back
We didn't end up with the previous manager's by accident. Few were lining up for the job and nothing has changed. If Moyes is the best candidate available he's possibly the only person interested
Click to expand...
I remember you saying previously, that you were glad, when he left, and didn’t want him back.
 
West Yorks Owl said:
Close.

They finished 5th in the 1914-15 season, the first division was being expanded to 22 but Arsenal got the vote rather than other teams. The below doesn't help to dismiss there has always been a "red cartel" :)

This is from Wiki

en.wikipedia.org

History of Arsenal F.C. (1886–1966) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

"The club controversially rejoined the First Division in 1919,despite having only finished sixth in 1914-15, the last season of competitive football before the First World War — although an error in the calculation of goal average meant Arsenal had actually finished fifth, an error which was corrected by the Football League in 1975.

The First Division was being expanded from 20 teams to 22, and the two new entrants were to be elected at an AGM of the Football League. On past precedent the two places would be given to the two clubs that would otherwise have been relegated, namely Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspur. Instead one of the extra places was awarded to Chelsea and a ballot was called for the remaining place.

The candidates included 20th-placed Tottenham and, from the Second Division, Barnsley (who had finished third); Wolverhampton Wanderers, (fourth); Birmingham (fifth, later amended to sixth); Arsenal; Hull City (seventh); and Nottingham Forest (eighth).

The League voted to promote sixth-placed Arsenal, for reasons of history over merit; Norris argued that Arsenal be promoted for their "long service to league football", having been the first League club from the South. The League board agreed; Arsenal received 18 votes, Tottenham 8, Barnsley 5 and Wolves 4, with a further 6 votes shared between the other clubs.

The announcement of the vote reportedly caught all the clubs, except Arsenal, unawares and the affair is a major contributing factor to the rivalry which has fuelled the long-standing enmity between Arsenal and Tottenham. There is also an inconsistency in the argument – if "long service to league football" was the criterion for promoting Arsenal instead of Tottenham then Wolverhampton Wanderers, who finished two points ahead of Arsenal and were founder members of the Football League, would appear to have had a stronger claim. It has been alleged that this was due to backroom deals or even outright bribery by Sir Henry Norris,colluding with his friend John McKenna, the chairman of Liverpool and the Football League, who recommended Arsenal's promotion at the AGM.

No conclusive proof of wrongdoing has come to light, though other aspects of Norris's financial dealings unrelated to the promotion controversy have fuelled speculation on the matter; Norris resigned as chairman and left the club in 1929, having been found guilty by the Football Association of financial irregularities; he was found to have misused his expenses account, and to have pocketed the proceeds of the sale of the Arsenal team bus.

Regardless of the circumstances of their promotion, Arsenal have remained in the top division since 1919, and as a result hold the English record for the longest unbroken stretch of top-flight football. There appear to be no extant records of the meetings which elected Arsenal to the First Division in 1919, however the book Making the Arsenal proposes a different reason for their election in that year, arguing that match-fixing issues from the final year of football before the war (1914–15) were used by Norris as a weapon in his battle to get Arsenal promoted. He demanded that Liverpool and Manchester United (some of whose players had been found guilty of match fixing) be punished by relegation or expulsion, and threatened to organise a breakaway from the league by Midlands and southern clubs if nothing was done. To placate him the League offered Arsenal a place in the First Division."
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I mentioned this to a work colleague once as he was forever banging on about ‘history’. He actually said “that’s too far back”.
I obviously just ignored him from there on in.
 
jimharri said:
Exactly. No one has a divine right to be in the top flight, simply on the basis that they've been in there for decades. It's what you do on the pitch that counts. Look at Wolves; they were arguably THE team in England back in the early fifties. Since then, I think they've been all the way down to the real fourth division. @Wanderingwolf? Or Huddersfield back in the 1930s under Herbert Chapman. Despite what the rags, dips and tarqs might argue it's what you're doing now that governs what division you play in, not what you did 20/30/40 years ago.
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Yep dropped down to the 4th in consecutive seasons Graham turner dragged us back up through the leagues but we faltered at the last step and spent 19 years outside the top division
 
Vienna_70 said:
I remember you saying previously, that you were glad, when he left, and didn’t want him back.
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Personally yeah for sure. In the decade plus that he managed everton everytime he had to step it up he failed. Fa cup finals, semi finals, don't think he ever won an away game v a top 4 club. He was a serial bottler and stitched the club up when he left for Yanited. Now he thinks ill go back and be worshipped? Didn't West Ham get rid because of his style of football.
 
Shit, back to being our bogey team then, hated playing against Moyes Everton sides tbh, he always seemed to get them up for giving us a kicking.

I disliked him when he went to the rags but I then bumped into him at a pub in The Trough Of Bowland (Whitewells) and he was genuinely a nice bloke, happy to chat footy for ages and bought our table a round of drinks, that was after calling him a raggy bastard as well which was a bit cringe! He actually started it when he saw my City polo shirt.
 
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Not my first choice. But who else would have come here. The club has been run into the ground over the years. We have become as dire as can be. Dyche was driving us to relegation. Now we have a chance. If we stay up we go to the new stadium with hope for the future. I am not expecing trophies, just some stability would be nice.
 
SiMCFC said:
Shit, back to being our bogey team then, hated playing against Moyes Everton sides tbh, he always seemed to get them up for giving us a kicking.

I disliked him when he went to the rags but I then bumped into him at a pub in The Trough Of Bowland (Whitewells) and he was genuinely a nice bloke, happy to chat footy for ages and bought our table a round of drinks, that was after calling him a raggy bastard as well which was a bit cringe!
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I’ve spoken to a few people who have met David Moyes, and all they had to say were good things.
 
BlueTG said:
I’ve spoken to a few people who have met David Moyes, and all they had to say were good things.
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He always seems to come across as a nice enough fella on the telly. He had an impossible job at the swamp. Whoever succeeded GPC was on a hiding to nothing. Whatever that manager did, he'd be compared to his predecessor. The same could well happen when Pep knocks it on the head with us.
 
Toffeedude said:
I am not expecing trophies, just some stability would be nice.
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I think he'll bring you a bit of stability, initially at least. How it works out long term is another thing. It's been about ten years since his reign at the vermin came to a close, and although he did reasonably well with the Hammers he hasn't done a great deal since to make the world sit up and take notice.

I can't remember what the general mood of Evertonians was when he left, was his departure met with approval by many? Were there a lot who were glad to see him go?
Whatever the outcome, securing your place in the Prem is obviously paramount and I think he will do that. Then he can start thinking of the future.

Good luck. I quite like Everton.
 
KentBlue said:
I think he'll bring you a bit of stability, initially at least. How it works out long term is another thing. It's been about ten years since his reign at the vermin came to a close, and although he did reasonably well with the Hammers he hasn't done a great deal since to make the world sit up and take notice.

I can't remember what the general mood of Evertonians was when he left, was his departure met with approval by many? Were there a lot who were glad to see him go?
Whatever the outcome, securing your place in the Prem is obviously paramount and I think he will do that. Then he can start thinking of the future.

Good luck. I quite like Everton.
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I lost some of my respect for them when they whinged about the postponed game at Goodison during lock down. Droning on about wanting to be kept informed. Plus the way they treated Lescott when he returned there with us.
 
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