Capital Punishment.

[Betterdeedthan red]

Fuck Mathew and the fucking bible.
If you had a child you would understand.
Someone does something like this to them they will pay for it.
when i first held my daughter i knew then i would die to protect her.
its a love you cant explain it goes beyond anything.
I thought I loved my mum and dad.
And my misses .
but that moment was another level.
do something to her i would hunt down who ever it was and cut his throat

You are angry about something beyond your control, of course I feel deeply for the loss of the girls and for their families, it is horrific.

I take it you are a good Christian boy and not a religious fanatic

Matthew 5:38-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Do you understand the context of that Biblical text?




My lack of children is nothing to do with my moral convictions.

Killing is wrong, murder is wrong, state sanctioned execution is wrong.

 

[Rascal]

Fuck Mathew and the fucking bible.
If you had a child you would understand.
Someone does something like this to them they will pay for it.
when i first held my daughter i knew then i would die to protect her.
its a love you cant explain it goes beyond anything.
I thought I loved my mum and dad.
And my misses .
but that moment was another level.
do something to her i would hunt down who ever it was and cut his throat

And you would go to prison, you would not be executed.

 

[Betterdeedthan red]

And you would go to prison, you would not be executed.

I wouldn't care.
I'd rather die after killing the **** and get justice than not do.
If you don't have kids you won't get it

 

[mackenzie]

What about in a situation like this.
Or when Lee rigby was killed.
When there is no argument who did it.
Fuck trails.
And going to court .
Kill the twat straight away.

Yes, the killing of Lee Rigby was another one where, to be honest, my heart ruled my head for a long time. Particularly as my 3 brothers are ex Lancashire Fusiliers who all saw active service and my Dad was raised on Langley, like Lee Rigby was. That felt horribly close to home :-(

I lived in Bury at that time and was stood outside Bury Parish Church when they brought him "home."

Yet the feelings of vengeance cooled and I realized that, for me anyway, the thoughts of those 2 murdering bastards being forgotten (and not "martyred" by the State, as it would have undoubtedly felt to those of a similar vein) and rotting in a cell for the rest of their lives was much better justice

 

[hilts]

I have noted on social media that most calling for this tonight in the Southport case are also the one's calling Muslim countries barbaric because they execute their own citizens. Double standards? Colour me shocked.

So barbaric we give them and participate in major sporting events, do business and sell.them arms, execute someone who has slain 3 kids is not what us civilised people do, people dying whilst building a stadium however is just commerce old bean.
We can all sit back while innocent humans or animals starve.or get bombed but put down an evil fucker who butchered kids, now thats when people decide to exercise their superior morality.

We are a strange breed. Does our hypocrisy ever end.

BTW civilised society means nothing, we are all part of society so who decides what's civilised. I don't remember being asked

Well done Blue going political straight off the bat though.

 

[Rascal]

I wouldn't care.
I'd rather die after killing the **** and get justice than not do.
If you don't have kids you won't get it

So you prefer vigilantism to the rule of law.

Thankfully you are in a very small minority.

 

[hilts]

There's no cast iron guarantee that all convictions are safe.

Forensic science can be fudged with or tampered and corruption in police forces isn't 0%.

Andrew Malkinson was acquitted after DNA evidence was found three years after the event. But change the circumstances, no DNA found, and the real perpetrator has killed the victim after the rape.

Most would have happily seen an unknowingly innocent man swing.

Don't bring it in for every conviction then.would seem the obvious answer. Anyhow it's never coming in this is about what people would accept.

Personally I would use it very sparingly like in the case today. If I listened to that evidence today and was offered a baseball bat and immunity I wouldn't blink not for a second if that's what the parents wanted. At the end of the day it's their never ending suffering and if beating him to death gave them even a second of comfort im happy to flush that turd away.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

A place for respectful debate.

Discuss.

I’m In favour of life meaning just that, you spend your whole life in prison like Hindley and Brady we can’t afford to convict/terminate the life of one innocent man

 

[madloaf]

Don't bring it in for every conviction then.would seem the obvious answer. Anyhow it's never coming in this is about what people would accept.

Personally I would use it very sparingly like in the case today. If I listened to that evidence today and was offered a baseball bat and immunity I wouldn't blink not for a second if that's what the parents wanted. At the end of the day it's their never ending suffering and if beating him to death gave them even a second of comfort im happy to flush that turd away.

At least 200 people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death have been exonerated since 1973 in the US alone.

(Still, at least you got to beat them to death with a baseball bat.)

It took 9 pages to get silly. It's 8 pages more than I thought to be honest.

 

[Ric]

I’m firmly opposed to capital punishment, but would possibly make an exception for people who put full stops after thread titles.

 

[hilts]

At least 200 people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death have been exonerated since 1973 in the US alone.

(Still, at least you got to beat them to death with a baseball bat.)

It took 9 pages to get silly. It's 8 pages more than I thought to be honest.

You missed the bit where I said I would use it very sparingly, there is no question this guy was innocent so 200 people in America is irrelevant. Don't be silly.

Come back when you can read posts properly.

 

[madloaf]

You missed the bit where I said I would use it very sparingly, there is no question this guy was innocent so 200 people in America is irrelevant. Don't be silly.

Come back when you can read posts properly.

I read your post. What's "sparingly" to you? Is it when it's beyond a reasonable doubt? And I'm sure the families of the 200 people wrongly executed don't think it's irrelevant. Should they be allowed to beat a civil servant to death with a baseball bat now? Like I said. Silly.

 

[hilts]

And you would go to prison, you would not be executed.

The moment it happens to your kid your life is over, your getting punished far more than the killer ever will.

Odd justice that is.

 

[hilts]

I read your post. What's "sparingly" to you? Is it when it's beyond a reasonable doubt? And I'm sure the families of the 200 people wrongly executed don't think it's irrelevant. Should they be allowed to beat a civil servant to death with a baseball bat now? Like I said. Silly.

No doubt at all. Like I said it wouldn't relate to those cases. I'm not saying it a third time, are you really this stupid?

 

[madloaf]

No doubt at all. Like I said it wouldn't relate to those cases. I'm not saying it a third time, are you really this stupid?

Got it. For those people who are really guilty. Not just the guilty ones, but the really guilty ones.

Makes sense to me.

 

[hilts]

Got it. For those people who are really guilty. Not just the guilty ones, but the really guilty ones.

Makes sense to me.

It doesn't coz you're thick as pig shit tbh. If you have read this case there isn't even a 0.0000000001% chance he didn't do it.

If you're equating this to a possible miscarriage of justice I'm glad your not a fucking judge or juror.

 

[madloaf]

It doesn't coz your thick as pig shit tbh. If you have read this case there isn't even a 0.0000000001% chance he didn't do it.

If you're equating thus o a possible miscarriage of justice I'm glad your not a fucking judge or juror.

Like I said, silly.

 

[hilts]

Like I said, silly.

You think this guy should live coz you think he may be innocent. I'm very comfortable he ain't, move on you think my opinion is silly and I know yours is.

Ttfn.

 

[hilts]

If capital punishment was on the statutes no one would plead guilty simple as. The guy whose killed these young girls in Southport wouldn't have pleaded guilty he'd have pleaded insanity.

I assume no one would want to volunter to be the next Timothy Evans if they ever brought it back thats for sure.

Benjamin Franklin said words to the effect of, it would be better that 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man had to suffer.

As a side note Pierpoint only resigned as hangman not because he had any guilty concience, but every execution was commuted at the 11th hour.

However he's had to travel to the exection site at his own expense and then he wasn't needed.

It's a very emotive subject thats for sure.

He may have changed his mind if he bumped into any of the 100 in fairness.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Don't think I'll be saying anything new, but understand why this topic continues to come up at times like this.

Main arguments against:
> Philosophically, I don't think the state should ever have the right to kill somebody.
> Practically speaking, no government has ever managed to implement it without killing innocent people.
> People say "only in cases with no doubt". What do you think previous executions were? What do you think "Beyond a reasonable doubt" means? Do you think judges executed people where they thought reasonable doubt existed? I also hear "catch them in the act" a lot. Caught in the act according to who? Witnesses who can be bribed or blackmailed? Footage which can be misleading or doctored? Lots of innocent black people in the Deep South were lynched after being "caught in the act". And what about people who have been coerced, or brainwashed? This is simply not an objective or measurable standard. This fantasy world of "no doubt" has been proven time and time again simply not to exist in practical reality.

Arguments in favour:
> I do think it is actually more humane than locking somebody in a box for decades.

So on balance, no, not for me.

Baffles me a bit that people implicitly seem to think capital punishment is somehow a worse punishment than being locked away for your entire life. There have been studies that show 80%+ of people with full life sentences will try and commit suicide at least once. It's a mercy. I think some are of the impression that others are against the death penalty because they are just "too nice" or something. It couldn't be further from the truth. It's not a position born out of a desire to protect criminals, it's born out of a desire to protect the innocent.