Lucy Letby infant murders trial

mexico1970 said:
Some would have us believe that she is now innocent, too many partisan opinions from people who know very little about the case other than buying mass murderer magazines.
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It's the world we live in now..... how many fans of Liverpool and the rags are now fully knowledgeable financial experts on FFP and City's 115 charges? I am amazed the Premier League have spent millions hiring legal eagles to fight their corner when every single LFC and rag fan have offered their fully researched evidence on Facebook for free!
 
BridgyDids said:
Not followed this thread, or the case really (other than a very high level brief view) but listening to the latest Private Eye podcast on this was very interesting. It’s the second half of the podcast for those interested.

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Again, the podcast above gives a good view on this from a court room journalist who has followed this case.

And it’s not full of wacko conspiracies either!
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
It's the world we live in now..... how many fans of Liverpool and the rags are now fully knowledgeable financial experts on FFP and City's 115 charges? I am amazed the Premier League have spent millions hiring legal eagles to fight their corner when every single LFC and rag fan have offered their fully researched evidence on Facebook for free!
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May I refer you to the 9 thousand pages of speculation and assumption on this here forum.
 
mexico1970 said:
Never has jail, best to do nothing though and pretend it never happened. There is a reason why those against legally killing people don't want a referendum on it.
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For murderers that get whole life sentences absolutely it isn’t. Jailing someone for breaking laws is clearly a deterrent though, I don’t see anyone advocating for getting rid of it from our criminal justice system.

On a referendum on the death penalty, yes obviously those that are against it wouldn’t want one. Personally I wouldn’t want a referendum on virtually any topic even if I disagree with the existing stance but that’s just me, I realise and understand those that do.

This topic in particular, I think it would be even more difficult than most to keep the debate rational.
 
meltonblue said:
For murderers that get whole life sentences absolutely it isn’t. Jailing someone for breaking laws is clearly a deterrent though, I don’t see anyone advocating for getting rid of it from our criminal justice system.

On a referendum on the death penalty, yes obviously those that are against it wouldn’t want one. Personally I wouldn’t want a referendum on virtually any topic even if I disagree with the existing stance but that’s just me, I realise and understand those that do.

This topic in particular, I think it would be even more difficult than most to keep the debate rational.
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Referendums are a bad idea as they inevitably reduce very complex questions to simple answers - as well well know in this country already!

The death penalty is a complex one for me. Would I happily see pure evil people where there's absolutely 0% chance they are innocent and will never be rehabilitated or see daylight again fry? In the cases of terrorists, serial killers, child rapists etc, fucking damn right - I wouldn't give a shit and would throw the switch myself.

In other more nuanced cases where there's even a 0.01% chance they didn't do it, I could not in any good conscience support it.

How that view would translate into legislation - well it couldn't could it so I've no idea really. It was almost certainly a good idea to get rid of it, in the balance of things.

As I said on another post, I would happily see it balanced out by letting the police be a bit more trigger happy. Just go a bit yank and shoot the gangster thug cunts on the street and save the legal system the trouble and cost.
 
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MellowJoe said:
I always thought the idea of a deterrent was for a guy who was thinking of doing something, but didn't, cos he saw what happened to the guy that did.
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Sadly the criminal justice system in this country is no deterrent. Police don't even investigate burglaries and car crime etc, even more serious crimes the risk is clearly worth it.

With violent crime personally I think the yanks are onto something, just exterminate the cunts on the street and save everyone the cost and hassle.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
Referendums are a bad idea as they inevitably reduce very complex questions to simple answers - as well well know in this country already!

The death penalty is a complex one for me. Would I happily see pure evil people where there's absolutely 0% chance they are guilty and will never be rehabilitated or see darling again fry? In the cases of terrorists, serial killers, child rapists etc, fucking damn right - I wouldn't give a shit and would throw the switch myself.

In other more nuanced cases where there's even a 0.01% chance they didn't do it, I could not in any good conscience support it.

How that view would translate into legislation - well it couldn't could it.
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Pretty much where my head is at with it. I’s add also don’t think in some cases the death penalty is the worst punishment for the individual either, as well as it reducing any possibility of any learnings from individuals.

The emotive argument for it is incredibly strong too and I get that. Like I said, it’s why I’d like those that rationally consider the whole thing to be making those kind of decisions, rather than the electorate as a whole.
 
meltonblue said:
Pretty much where my head is at with it. I’s add also don’t think in some cases the death penalty is the worst punishment for the individual either, as well as it reducing any possibility of any learnings from individuals.

The emotive argument for it is incredibly strong too and I get that. Like I said, it’s why I’d like those that rationally consider the whole thing to be making those kind of decisions, rather than the electorate as a whole.
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I agree about not being a referendum topic.

I'd have some concerns about how juries would react to the possibility too.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
Sadly the criminal justice system in this country is no deterrent. Police don't even investigate burglaries and car crime etc, even more serious crimes the risk is clearly worth it.

With violent crime personally I think the yanks are onto something, just exterminate the cunts on the street and save everyone the cost and hassle.
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In the USA 1 in 8 cases where a prisoner is put on death row turns out to be a wrongful conviction.

You wouldn't accept those odds if you were told 1 out of 8 times you press the brakes on your car, they fail to work, or 1 in every 8 apples you eat might kill you.
 
Not sure what to think about this as I'm not gossip hungry enough to be aware of much beyond the horror of the charges and then the guilty verdict. If she is actually innocent rather than there just being procedural holes in the investigation or court case then that is terrible.
Also shitty for the relatives that have the little comfort that closure brought them snatched away.
 
www.theguardian.com

‘Strong reasonable doubt’ over Lucy Letby insulin convictions, experts say

Exclusive: ‘No scientific justification’ to say former nurse definitely poisoned babies with insulin, according to study authors
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The prosecution said test results that showed low blood sugar and “abnormally high” insulin levels, with very low levels of C-peptide, meant it “must be that they have been given or taken” synthetic insulin that had not been prescribed.

However, a new 100-page report by Chase, a distinguished professor of bioengineering at the University of Canterbury in New Zealand, and the British chemical engineering expert Helen Shannon, says low blood sugar levels are “not uncommon” in pre-term infants.

The study adds that insulin poisoning would probably have resulted in far lower levels of potassium and glucose than the babies’ records show, and points out that they showed no symptoms of severe insulin poisoning, such as seizures or heart arrhythmia.

The report, which references more than 250 peer-reviewed scientific papers and is due to be sent to the CCRC within weeks, describes the immunoassay test used in this case – and relied on by the Crown Prosecution Service – as “not reliable” and “not of forensic quality”.
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