President Trump

Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
About time. The role of nato and a coherent European defence policy should have been calmly addressed in the 90s when the cold War ended. With perhaps the strategic exception of nuclear detergent I don't expect the US to still be policing Europe.
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They have plenty military bases in Europe. Maybe we should start reducing them. Or raising taxes on them.
 
west didsblue said:
Of course it was realistic once the war was over, but never with Trump as de facto leader of the alliance. A strong NATO with cast iron guarantees if Article 5 was invoked would have kept Russia in its box. A weak NATO where we know or strongly suspect Trump would renege on any treaties is worthless and would make little difference to Ukraine’s security. It’s obvious Putin is licking his lips and will be looking to invade elsewhere once he’s replenished his army post Ukraine, because he knows NATO is toothless with an unreliable lead member.
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I don't know if the US would ever accept NATO membership for Ukraine. Talks started in 2008 and as far as I can tell Ukraine is as far away as ever. They didn't make it in after the Crimea invasion. A lot would have to change in Ukraine and in the US security establishment's thinking about military priorities. They've been broadcasting a pivot to Asia since at least the Obama administration.

I don't think Putin is stupid enough to attack a NATO member, however unreliable and mercenary Trump may be. Maybe Trump ignores it. Maybe he takes it as a personal affront and the US goes in with both feet. Nobody really knows because he's unhinged or senile or whatever is going on.
 
WT86 said:
I don't know if the US would ever accept NATO membership for Ukraine. Talks started in 2008 and as far as I can tell Ukraine is as far away as ever. They didn't make it in after the Crimea invasion. A lot would have to change in Ukraine and in the US security establishment's thinking about military priorities. They've been broadcasting a pivot to Asia since at least the Obama administration.

I don't think Putin is stupid enough to attack a NATO member, however unreliable and mercenary Trump may be. Maybe Trump ignores it. Maybe he takes it as a personal affront and the US goes in with both feet. Nobody really knows because he's unhinged or senile or whatever is going on.
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I can see NATO Article 5 being severely tested over the next 4 years, and it does not bear thinking about.
 
WT86 said:
I don't know if the US would ever accept NATO membership for Ukraine. Talks started in 2008 and as far as I can tell Ukraine is as far away as ever. They didn't make it in after the Crimea invasion. A lot would have to change in Ukraine and in the US security establishment's thinking about military priorities. They've been broadcasting a pivot to Asia since at least the Obama administration.

I don't think Putin is stupid enough to attack a NATO member, however unreliable and mercenary Trump may be. Maybe Trump ignores it. Maybe he takes it as a personal affront and the US goes in with both feet. Nobody really knows because he's unhinged or senile or whatever is going on.
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Putin isn’t stupid. He cold, calculating, ruthless, knows what he can get away with and will push it to the limit to try his luck. He’s a Diet Stalin. Trump isn’t on his level, he just thinks he is.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
Destabilise your closest allies and embrace your enemy within a matter of weeks.

Not sure what the endgame will be but Americans should be hanging their heads in shame right now for voting in this madman.
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It is kind of strange that we in the UK are now looking at the USA as a potential threat to our wellbeing.

Like you, I have no idea what affect he will have on the world, especially with allies like us in Europe that have, over the years, had the same basic principles of freedom and justice as core values that need protecting.

I'm 67 years old, and it's a seismic shock to me how aggressive the language towards us from Trump is.

I never thought the USA would turn against us so quickly while cosying up to Russia so complicitly.

It's a very odd development, and their nearest neighbour, Canada, is having an even harder time trying to work out what to do about it.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
Destabilise your closest allies and embrace your enemy within a matter of weeks.

Not sure what the endgame will be but Americans should be hanging their heads in shame right now for voting in this madman.
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Tripartite detente: USA, China, Russia, because Trump equates himself to those Dictators and want to be the Boss of the World…and thinks he would be in that equation.

He will cede the Far Pacific to China, as long as they don’t threaten American interests and they keep NK in check.

He will cede Eastern Europe to Putin, as long as he doesn’t land grab any further and just prints more billions for himself from the reflow of oil, gas and other trade.

With Europe, he will tell them they need to stand on their own two feet and, while NATO and Article 5 won’t be rescinded, it should never be needed now he’s brought Putin & Xi to heel.

He’s already signaled to both that he wants to STOP THE MADNESS OF MAD and reduce military budgets by 50%, so we can all focus on trade and making money. It’s the only language he knows. That’s be a $500Bn annual savings and would pay for his proposed tax cuts for the 10 yrs he wants to implement them!
 
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NPBlue said:
It is kind of strange that we in the UK are now looking at the USA as a potential threat to our wellbeing.

Like you, I have no idea what affect he will have on the world, especially with allies like us in Europe that have, over the years, had the same basic principles of freedom and justice as core values that need protecting.

I'm 67 years old, and it's a seismic shock to me how aggressive the language towards us from Trump is.

I never thought the USA would turn against us so quickly while cosying up to Russia so complicitly.

It's a very odd development, and their nearest neighbour, Canada, is having an even harder time trying to work out what to do about it.
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Trump is clearly a bit nuts and his delivery lacks tact to say the least. It does seem though that a lot of folk are so triggered by his very existence that if him and Musk came up with a cure for cancer they'd want it banned.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Tripartite detente: USA, China, Russia, because Trump equates himself to those Dictators and want to be the Boss of the World…and thinks he would be in that equation.

He will cede the Far Pacific to China, as long as they don’t threaten American interests and they keep NK in check.

He will cede Eastern Europe to Putin, as long as he doesn’t land grab any further and just prints more billions for himself from the reflow of oil, gas and other trade.

With Europe, he will tell them they need to stand on their own two feet and, while NATO and Article 5 won’t be rescinded, it should never be needed now he’s brought Putin & Ci to heel.

He’s already signaled to both that he wants to STOP THE MADNESS OF MAD and reduce military budgets by 50%, so we can all focus on trade and making money. It’s the only language he knows. That’s be a $500Bn annual savings and would pay for his proposed tax cuts for the 10 yrs he wants to implement them!
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Hmmmmm.... Sounds interesting :)
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Tripartite detente: USA, China, Russia, because Trump equates himself to those Dictators and want to be the Boss of the World…and thinks he would be in that equation.

He will cede the Far Pacific to China, as long as they don’t threaten American interests and they keep NK in check.

He will cede Eastern Europe to Putin, as long as he doesn’t land grab any further and just prints more billions for himself from the reflow of oil, gas and other trade.

With Europe, he will tell them they need to stand on their own two feet and, while NATO and Article 5 won’t be rescinded, it should never be needed now he’s brought Putin & Ci to heel.

He’s already signaled to both that he wants to STOP THE MADNESS OF MAD and reduce military budgets by 50%, so we can all focus on trade and making money. It’s the only language he knows. That’s be a $500Bn annual savings and would pay for his proposed tax cuts for the 10 yrs he wants to implement them!
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Sounds OK tbf - if it works. Damn peacenick.
 
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