Red Cafe in meltdown

Clinton Morrison is still trotting out the 'not the quality of a Manchester United player' line. What is that quality? They are no longer one of the top clubs, it is that simple. I may be biased against them, and I truly am, but how long can 'experts' talk as if they are a top club. They have not been near the league title for a decade, and nowhere near true European honours for longer. They have not won the Champions' League for sixteen years, and last contested a final in May 2011.
 
Platt Lane 59 said:
Don't often watch MUFC, but their game against Spurs is usually an entertaining match.
The ironic thing about today's match (watched in a pub, with no sound on), is that Amorim has already aged 10 years since his bouncy & upbeat introduction.
Considering MUFC have always amplified their infamous youth policy, why didn't they bring one of their world's best Academy players on before the 91st minute ?
They are in a right pickle...
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They've no doubt hollowed it out like they have every other aspect of the club except record transfer fees and massive wages. It's worth mentioning for all of Scruffy Jim's cost cutting, there's absolutely nothing to stop him spending as much as he likes improving the training facilities, youth team setup, stadium, etc. Strangely though, he doesn't seem too keen to do it.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
They've no doubt hollowed it out like they have every other aspect of the club except record transfer fees and massive wages. It's worth mentioning for all of Scruffy Jim's cost cutting, there's absolutely nothing to stop him spending as much as he likes improving the training facilities, youth team setup, stadium, etc. Strangely though, he doesn't seem too keen to do it.
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The difficulty for him is that if you run football as a proper business, you will fall behind those who will make huge investments in the short-term, allied to a long-term vision, to eventually run as a sustainable operation. He is hamstrung by the rules his club sought to impose on the league, and by the chronic lack of infrastructure planning by his 'predecessors'. Their arrogance in effectively ignoring the emergence of their closest rivals is what has brought them to this place.
 
The rags are in a self made and self accomodating debt situation, but they are not skint, just owned by money grabbing spendthifts

Their continued shitness in the table is costing them win bonuses and other revenues that help with PSR ( when masters isn't fudging the figures for them). The more they are shite the less they can spend, and an overindulgence in wage offers to average players means no **** will buy their cast offs to fund amorins rebuild.

Truly wonderful to see them implode on and off the pitch....and online ;-)
 
oldius said:
Clinton Morrison is still trotting out the 'not the quality of a Manchester United player' line. What is that quality? They are no longer one of the top clubs, it is that simple. I may be biased against them, and I truly am, but how long can 'experts' talk as if they are a top club. They have not been near the league title for a decade, and nowhere near true European honours for longer. They have not won the Champions' League for sixteen years, and last contested a final in May 2011.
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People have a hard time accepting it when things move on. It's like the first time you hear Linkin Park being introduced as classic rock. There are fans who only know Gary Neville as a pundit in the same way that I only knew Alan Hansen and Mark Lawrenson as pundits.
 
A delicious post from this morning. Enjoy blues !

Post in thread 'Club ownership | Senior management team talk'
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/club-ownership-senior-management-team-talk.484569/post-32968295

I fear we are in the worst possible case scenario. SJR is able to oversee decisions that the Glazers would never have been able to get away with. Had the Glazers made half the decisions Ineos have since taking over (penny pinching, redundancies, price rises, SAF, etc) there would have been literal protests to shut down games and disrupt the club. But Ineos can do it because the Glazers have managed to structure their ownership in such a way that seemingly now absolves them of any footballing responsibilities of the club.

I'm sorry, you have to be willing to swallow a pretty big PR pill to buy that one. What other football club have 75% majority owners who get a free pass on the one part of the club fans actually care about? The Glazers must be fecking laughing all the way to the bank. In spite of everything, they have "successfully" overseen such a demise of the club that we are able to rationalize us sitting just above the relegation area with a new manager incapable of winning games in the league, and the majority of fans are happy to accept us gutting our squad and replacing multiple outs with an unknown LB from Lecce. All this without a peep from match going fans - just apathetic acceptance of our demise.

We are beyond mediocre. Imagine if Madrid, Barca or Bayern fans were watching this at their clubs? I guarantee the response would be different and success would be a season or two away from returning. But we are kidding ourselves if we think we can be talked about along the lines of those clubs really. Our history is probably best confined to two unbelievably successful managers, and regular domestic cup success beyond that.

We have absolutely plummeted down the football hierarchy and we will likely be going into next season aiming to avoid relegation above all else. Absolutely dead.
 
oldius said:
Clinton Morrison is still trotting out the 'not the quality of a Manchester United player' line. What is that quality? They are no longer one of the top clubs, it is that simple. I may be biased against them, and I truly am, but how long can 'experts' talk as if they are a top club. They have not been near the league title for a decade, and nowhere near true European honours for longer. They have not won the Champions' League for sixteen years, and last contested a final in May 2011.
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Well it is 63 years since Tottenham last won the league. 32 years since they won the cup they always win when the year ends in 1, 28 years since a League Cup and 40 years since having a sniff in Europe and yet somehow they get talked about in the same way. So don't expect any change in the MU narrative this century.

And actually - enjoy the narrative whilst it lasts - it is a drip drip reminder of former glory and how far they have fallen. In contrast to Villa or Wolves or Preston who many people have no knowledge that once upon the time they looked like they were going to dominate English football for ever. Now all of those clubs can just settle into their respective mid-table roles with the occasional blip one way or another and nothing more is expected of them
 
oldius said:
The difficulty for him is that if you run football as a proper business, you will fall behind those who will make huge investments in the short-term, allied to a long-term vision, to eventually run as a sustainable operation. He is hamstrung by the rules his club sought to impose on the league, and by the chronic lack of infrastructure planning by his 'predecessors'. Their arrogance in effectively ignoring the emergence of their closest rivals is what has brought them to this place.
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But he doesn't need to run it as a business. He could still invest massively in everything other than the playing squad and see results. For all their faults, the thing that's caused the Glazers' to fail isn't their level of investment in the squad, its their neglect of literally everything else. They still have the fourth highest revenue in world football, so if you combined that with subsidising the aspects of the club you're allowed to under PSR, you could still compete for the best players. The issue is that he has no desire to do that, he wants to use it to enrich himself just like the Glazers.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
But he doesn't need to run it as a business. He could still invest massively in everything other than the playing squad and see results. For all their faults, the thing that's caused the Glazers' to fail isn't their level of investment in the squad, its their neglect of literally everything else. They still have the fourth highest revenue in world football, so if you combined that with subsidising the aspects of the club you're allowed to under PSR, you could still compete for the best players. The issue is that he has no desire to do that, he wants to use it to enrich himself just like the Glazers.
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You're correct, he doesn't need to, but I guess that's why many businessmen won't dream of going near football - the rewards (financial) are relatively scant for the investment required. In our case, the investment is worthwhile because of the ability to build the profile of a plethora of other brands on the back of the sporting success achieved by Manchester City, and now the CFG with its presence in multiple international markets. Do his other businesses merit that level of investment? Imagine trying to build other brands on what is now a failing sporting franchise, known for its former glories. It would be like trying to build on the back of the Woolworths brand. It is a long way back.
 
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oldius said:
You're correct, he doesn't need to, but I guess that's why many businessmen won't dream of going near football - the rewards (financial) are relatively scant for the investment required. In our case, the investment is worthwhile because of the ability to build the profile of a plethora of other brands on the back of the sporting success achieved by Manchester City, and now the CFG with its presence in multiple international markets. Do his other businesses merit that level of investment? Imagine trying to build other brands on what is now a failing sporting franchise, known for its former glories. It would be like trying to build on the back of the Woolworths brand. It is a long way back.
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Are you telling me he's not a boyhood United fan doing it for the love of the club?
 
oldius said:
Clinton Morrison is still trotting out the 'not the quality of a Manchester United player' line. What is that quality? They are no longer one of the top clubs, it is that simple. I may be biased against them, and I truly am, but how long can 'experts' talk as if they are a top club. They have not been near the league title for a decade, and nowhere near true European honours for longer. They have not won the Champions' League for sixteen years, and last contested a final in May 2011.
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Al lot of these pundits are thick as shit.
Saw an interview with troy deany recently where he said leeds were a bigger club than city !!

Now i dont normally care about the ‘big club’ tag. How is it measured?
But i cant think of any level that leeds would be or have ever been bigger than city.
Not one
 
Bluesince1979 said:
Al lot of these pundits are thick as shit.
Saw an interview with troy deany recently where he said leeds were a bigger club than city !!

Now i dont normally care about the ‘big club’ tag. How is it measured?
But i cant think of any level that leeds would be or have ever been bigger than city.
Not one
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You really can just end the point there as therein lies the problem, the vast majority of pundits are ex footballers and with the best will in the world footballers are not known for being educated scholars capable of making a point succinctly and eruditely backed up with knowledge and well researched facts, they are more well known for saying errm and you see what i mean alot and grunting and there opinions and everything they say should be caveated with the fact that for the most part they are morons, rich morons who can kick a ball absolutely, but morons nonetheless
 
Bluesince1979 said:
Al lot of these pundits are thick as shit.
Saw an interview with troy deany recently where he said leeds were a bigger club than city !!

Now i dont normally care about the ‘big club’ tag. How is it measured?
But i cant think of any level that leeds would be or have ever been bigger than city.
Not one
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If being a big club means winning things recently then Leeds were bigger than City in the 70's. By the same token Untied and Spurs are not big clubs anymore and City are bigger than anyone. Troy Deaney is a prat.
 
Bluesince1979 said:
Al lot of these pundits are thick as shit.
Saw an interview with troy deany recently where he said leeds were a bigger club than city !!

Now i dont normally care about the ‘big club’ tag. How is it measured?
But i cant think of any level that leeds would be or have ever been bigger than city.
Not one
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The same Leeds who’s record EVER crowd is wait for it 57000
 
Bluesince1979 said:
Al lot of these pundits are thick as shit.
Saw an interview with troy deany recently where he said leeds were a bigger club than city !!

Now i dont normally care about the ‘big club’ tag. How is it measured?
But i cant think of any level that leeds would be or have ever been bigger than city.
Not one
Click to expand...
Sheep shagging?
 
cyan said:
Well it is 63 years since Tottenham last won the league. 32 years since they won the cup they always win when the year ends in 1, 28 years since a League Cup and 40 years since having a sniff in Europe and yet somehow they get talked about in the same way. So don't expect any change in the MU narrative this century.

And actually - enjoy the narrative whilst it lasts - it is a drip drip reminder of former glory and how far they have fallen. In contrast to Villa or Wolves or Preston who many people have no knowledge that once upon the time they looked like they were going to dominate English football for ever. Now all of those clubs can just settle into their respective mid-table roles with the occasional blip one way or another and nothing more is expected of them
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It's 17 seasons since they won the League Cup not 28, they qualified for the CL a few times and reached the CL final before we did. There has always been a media narrative to force Spurs into all top team mentions since they became the first team to win the double in the 20th century, and that was over 60 years ago.
They were also one of the prime movers for the Premier League.
They aren't the worst team in the PL despite recent results, but they way the media blow smoke up their arses is almost as bad as how the media refuse to treat the rags based on current form.
 
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