Russian invasion of Ukraine

I just don’t see how they can sit in Saudi and do a deal and then say to Ukraine this is happening, are they on a different planet? Ukraine will tell them to fuck off and fight to the last person and then a guerrilla war. If Ukraine give up land and USA won’t let them join nato all other European counties should build bases in Ukraine and declare them as embassies so sovereign soil so any attack on them article 5 comes in, any Soviet attack then they retaliate
 
Blue Maverick said:
I just don’t see how they can sit in Saudi and do a deal and then say to Ukraine this is happening, are they on a different planet? Ukraine will tell them to fuck off and fight to the last person and then a guerrilla war. If Ukraine give up land and USA won’t let them join nato all other European counties should build bases in Ukraine and declare them as embassies so sovereign soil so any attack on them article 5 comes in, any Soviet attack then they retaliate
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The problem is that Trump wouldn't agree to support art 5
 
mosssideblue said:
The problem is that Trump wouldn't agree to support art 5
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Europe should really be working together on defence a lot more.
I know some people wouldn't be a fan (especially the brexit crew) but a European super army makes so much sense. It would be a superpower and would remove the reliance on USA.
Wouldn't then need to be America's bitch when they wanted to go and start a war somewhere and get dragged into it.
 
117 M34 said:
Europe should really be working together on defence a lot more.
I know some people wouldn't be a fan (especially the brexit crew) but a European super army makes so much sense. It would be a superpower and would remove the reliance on USA.
Wouldn't then need to be America's bitch when they wanted to go and start a war somewhere and get dragged into it.
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Totally with you on this
 
Starmer is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on most things.

With the yanks being a load of wet flannels and Trump back in Putin appeasement mode Europe needs to get its shit together. I applaud Starmer for continuing the UK's bullish stance in defence of Ukraine but not sure threatening to put British boots on the ground is a good idea. If we do follow through with that it's exactly the kind of thing where one stray bullet could literally end up kicking off a world war.
 
117 M34 said:
Europe should really be working together on defence a lot more.
I know some people wouldn't be a fan (especially the brexit crew) but a European super army makes so much sense. It would be a superpower and would remove the reliance on USA.
Wouldn't then need to be America's bitch when they wanted to go and start a war somewhere and get dragged into it.
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Europe should be working closely on a lot of things.

We should have some sort of trading bloc where people can travel to work in different places where different skills and manpower are needed and freely trade each others goods seamlessly to the mutual benefit of all nations.

We could call it a union or something, I dunno, just a whimsical idea I had.
 
117 M34 said:
Europe should really be working together on defence a lot more.
I know some people wouldn't be a fan (especially the brexit crew) but a European super army makes so much sense. It would be a superpower and would remove the reliance on USA.
Wouldn't then need to be America's bitch when they wanted to go and start a war somewhere and get dragged into it.
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Especially with China.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
Starmer is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on most things.

With the yanks being a load of wet flannels and Trump back in Putin appeasement mode Europe needs to get its shit together. I applaud Starmer for continuing the UK's bullish stance in defence of Ukraine but not sure threatening to put British boots on the ground is a good idea. If we do follow through with that it's exactly the kind of thing where one stray bullet could literally end up kicking off a world war.
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I assumed that was intended for the aftermath, to defend whatever the border is. As a statement going into today's Paris meeting, it seems reasonable - it won't just be the Uk, it'll be lots of others.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I assumed that was intended for the aftermath, to defend whatever the border is. As a statement going into today's Paris meeting, it seems reasonable - it won't just be the Uk, it'll be lots of others.
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The french army are ordering their running shoes and rear view mirrors as we speak.

Assuming they’re not on strike.
 
117 M34 said:
Europe should really be working together on defence a lot more.
I know some people wouldn't be a fan (especially the brexit crew) but a European super army makes so much sense. It would be a superpower and would remove the reliance on USA.
Wouldn't then need to be America's bitch when they wanted to go and start a war somewhere and get dragged into it.
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I think Brexiteers are far more aligned to a military collective with our European neighbours than they are to a political one
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Starmer very good on words so far. Will be "interesting" to see how that survives his upcoming meeting with Trump.

Badenoch invisible on the biggest issue of the decade. No idea what her position is.
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Badenoch knows the election is so far away there's no point in saying much of anything about anything at the moment. Her best strategy is to keep her head down and try and avoid any massive fuck ups if she is to have any hope of even lasting until the campaign.

Given how big Starmer's majority is it doesn't make any difference to anyone what her stance or opinion on anything is really.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
Badenoch knows the election is so far away there's no point in saying much of anything about anything at the moment. Her best strategy is to keep her head down and try and avoid any massive fuck ups if she is to have any hope of even lasting until the campaign.

Given how big Starmer's majority is it doesn't make any difference to anyone what her stance or opinion on anything is really.
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I would disagree; I think unity in the face of a historic shift in the US from ally to hostile state is hugely important personally. In the same way that Starmer was always unified on Ukraine with the various Tory PMs.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I would disagree; I think unity in the face of a historic shift in the US from ally to hostile state is hugely important personally. In the same way that Starmer was always unified on Ukraine with the various Tory PMs.
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Ordinarily I agree and in the last parliament that was way more important than it is in this one.

It's highly preferable to present a united front, I don't think anyone is disputing that, but in practical terms it doesn't matter right now.

I expect Badenoch to decide on her position entirely based on polling 12 months ahead of the election. She's hedging her bets at the moment, which politically on a domestic scale for her own electoral chances is the right thing to do, even if it isn't ideal for the country on a geopolitical scale.

(I voted Lib Dem so have no real skin in this game)
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
That's true but still, it's a concern.

No real alternative though I suppose.
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I don't think there's much more than restating the UK's support of Ukraine.
The UK can't do it by themselves, and would need Ukraine's invitation anyway.
There's the Euro meeting today and then he's off to see Trump - might as well have a position on it known.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I would disagree; I think unity in the face of a historic shift in the US from ally to hostile state is hugely important personally. In the same way that Starmer was always unified on Ukraine with the various Tory PMs.
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I think at the moment it should be a watching brief, with general support. It's certainly not something to attack Labour over, and she's wont to overstep on that kind of thing.

At the moment, I don't think there's anything to agree with beyond the principle, and she should wait for a statement in Parliament to respond. Presumably by that point, all the major party leaders will have been summoned and briefed by Starmer.
 
Russia has hit Italy with a cyber attack in retaliation for the Italian president daring to compare Russia to Nazi Germany last month.

Doesn't feel like they are gearing up for peace.
 
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