Russian invasion of Ukraine

[gordondaviesmoustache]

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The 3% in Reform must be Tice and Farage.

 

[Scottyboi]

Even Kemi Banedoch has finally said something.

 

[Cassandra]

My understanding, which is certainly incomplete and may be inaccurate, is that most of the Government aid, both from USA and Europe has come in the form of equipment and materials rather than hard cash. In turn the contributions support home industries and in some cases demonstrate the effectiveness of weapons. So the support has not been entirely altruistic

The message for Europe is, yes it needs to spend more on defence, but it also needs to detach itself from weaponry made in the USA which must now be regarded as an unreliable partner. Hence the home defence industries should be built up, whilst expensive at least the bulk of the expenditure will be at home.

The Ukrainians seemed to be particularly good at developing their own relatively inexpensive but effective weapons, perhaps we can learn from them?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Even Kemi Banedoch has finally said something.

She was calling for Trump to visit Parliament a while back.

 

[Dage]

I personally think there needs to be a concerted effort in the US to point out the vast majority of the Military support given by the US was stockpiled hardware. This is stuff that was bought and paid for as far back as the 2003 iraq war and Afghanistan in 2001. So while vastly important to Ukraine it has not cost the US taxpayer out of the current budget cycles bar getting it from the US to Ukraine and some training. Which is probably offset by saving on maintaining the stockpile and any decommissioning that would need to take place.

And the rest of the money went directly into the bags of American manufacturers for buying ammunition and further expenses like Starlink.

 

[mosssideblue]

Even Kemi Banedoch has finally said something.

Was it sensible?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I personally think there needs to be a concerted effort in the US to point out the vast majority of the Military support given by the US was stockpiled hardware. This is stuff that was bought and paid for as far back as the 2003 iraq war and Afghanistan in 2001. So while vastly important to Ukraine it has not cost the US taxpayer out of the current budget cycles bar getting it from the US to Ukraine and some training. Which is probably offset by saving on maintaining the stockpile and any decommissioning that would need to take place.

When you’re defending, you’re losing!

Many would see it as a distinction without difference, and the taxpayers paid for it one way or another.

Subtlety is in short supply already. Trying to get it to work on the mouth breathers is a bridge too far.

 

[WT86]

Imagine been in Taiwan right now as well, he’s basically given the green light for that to be invaded.

Actually:

"In what it called a “routine” update to its online fact sheet on US relations with Taiwan last week, the State Department dropped the phrase “we do not support Taiwan independence” – a position long held by Washington.

The change was welcomed by Taipei but triggered one of the strongest rebukes from Beijing since Donald Trump returned to the White House. China’s ruling Communist Party claims the self-governing democracy as its own territory, and has vowed to take control of the island one day, by force if necessary."

Which, again, reflects a pre-Trump shift in American focus to the Pacific and our Pacific allies that has been communicated to Europe for many years now.

 

[Dage]

It's hard to believe that in just a few months, America has gone from a Russian hating nation to their best friends.
That both Russia and the US have presidents who control the media and openly lie to their populations.
Quote figures and facts that even when fact checked makes no difference to their people.

America has fucked up here. It will take generations of shame and repaired relations when the mafia is eventually dislodged.
I want to know where the "decent American" push back starts.
Surely they are not just going to sit back and let all Trumps madness just carry on?

Europe couldn't make big security decisions while the US were allies.
Those days are firmly gone.
So now decision makers can get on and make those decisions. They have gone from election losing ones, to vote winning ones.

It wouldn't have mattered though. It's not the defense spending that is in Trump's interest. It's the shattering of the international order, the weakening of democratic societies and the allocation of the world in spheres of influences so he can do whatever he wants.

 

[mosssideblue]

It wouldn't have mattered though. It's not the defense spending that is in Trump's interest. It's the shattering of the international order, the weakening of democratic societies and the allocation of the world in spheres of influences so he can do whatever he wants.

I think the nail has been hit on the head. Ukraine is sadly a pawn in Trumps chess game

 

[Citizen Mike]

Do people think that this could lead to a new race for nuclear weapons.? Some Countries could feel more exposed now even with being a member of NATO

 

[Wayneclarkemunchescarrots]

I’d rather be aligned with China than the US right now.

It’s not far off from rather being aligned with North Korea . He’s a petulant crazy ****

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Was it sensible?

The first paragraph is, so better than expected! 2nd one silly and unhelpful sniping.

 

[mrcunny]

My understanding, which is certainly incomplete and may be inaccurate, is that most of the Government aid, both from USA and Europe has come in the form of equipment and materials rather than hard cash. In turn the contributions support home industries and in some cases demonstrate the effectiveness of weapons. So the support has not been entirely altruistic

The message for Europe is, yes it needs to spend more on defence, but it also needs to detach itself from weaponry made in the USA which must now be regarded as an unreliable partner. Hence the home defence industries should be built up, whilst expensive at least the bulk of the expenditure will be at home.

The Ukrainians seemed to be particularly good at developing their own relatively inexpensive but effective weapons, perhaps we can learn from them?

I believe 70 billion dollars are actually hardware.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

orange **** is losing it ;)

A full orchestrated campaign on social media of lies by Trump is in progress.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Europe just needs to give the £300 billion in frozen assets to Ukraine before Hungary can stop it in 6 months, that would be huge statement of intent from Europe.

 

[remember arthur mann]

The first paragraph is, so better than expected! 2nd one silly and unhelpful sniping.

Well we all know Kemi talks out of her arse.

 

[remember arthur mann]

[/QUOTE]

 

[SiMCFC]

A full orchestrated campaign on social media of lies by Trump is in progress.

The problem is you then have the absolute bellends of society that spread them thinking the likes of Trump are the real truth seekers and the rest of the MSM is brainwashing US! I've seen posts from people who I genuinely think are quite clever on my FB feed posting clear Russian propaganda for the last few Years and I tend to just set it so I don't see their posts (some of these people I need to unfortunately communicate with in my day to day Life).

 

[red 2 hats]

What a horrible **** Trump is, selling Ukraine down the river, Putin must be laughing his bollocks off, he's got tge orange **** in the palm of his blood stained murdering hand.