Russian invasion of Ukraine

remember arthur mann said:
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It really upsets me that people are not going mad in America.

There should be people in the streets demanding Trump does the right thing.
 
SPIDERBOY said:
Ukrainian Artillery,hit a moving APC full of Russians from 10km away.
Fuck Trump and Musk by the way.
Thin ice springs to mind.

Slava Ukraini.
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The way to beat putin and trump is to do what Ukraine is doing now.
Europe needs to get fully behind them and as the losses mount up the world will see these 2 idiots fir what they are.
 
The Yanks were more than happy to drag NATO into Iraq twice and Afghanistan, now their current version of a president wants to abandon Europe and cuddle up to a long term enemy in Russia to blackmail Ukraine into giving over its precious metals. Their tactic of potentially ethically cleansing Gaza could stir up another hornets nest of terrorism similar to what we saw with Al Qaeda in the 90s and 2000s, when that happens they will want our troops, Royal Air Force and Royal Navy to go and help them level which part of the Middle East does it to them. I hope we remember the choices they made now and tell them to go fuck themselves.
 
I can understand the anti-American sentiment and Trump's strategy is completely barmy but the biggest problem for Europe is Trump seemingly has something to give whereas Europe doesn't. The European strategy is essentially solidarity without actual solidarity, it's we'll give you money (actually to our arms industry) but beyond that we can't help you.

If Ukraine sovereignty is threatened and must be respected then surely that means we must go to war? That is precisely what happened in WW2 when European and even our own sovereignty was threatened. We didn't spend years sitting on the sidelines across the Channel arming the European resistance to do whatever they could at arms length.

If not then what are we talking about here? Ukraine has remained an issue for Europe for 3 years and yet they're still essentially fighting over the same yards of mud at a cost of hundreds of billions. Ukraine physically cannot win this alone, that's just a fact.

Something has to give and Trump's cabal have seized the narrative because quite simply there is nothing else. If Europe is serious then we need to get serious whilst cautioning what that could truly mean. If we're only capable of talking and shouting about our fury then we may as well give the game up now.
 
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Victoria Derbyshire got to interview another crackpot on Newsnight. Tonight's odious scumbag was Russian fantasist and ambassador to the UK, Andrey Vladimirovich Kelin.

Imagine having the power Putin has when almost everyone cowers at his name, looks the other way and sees no wrongdoing at all.

Well, that's what Trump wants.
 

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BlueAnorak said:
$97bn in total from the US.
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What’s worse - according to the Washington Post 90% of that funding never leaves the USA. It goes into stimulating the Defence industry, paying for contracts, development of new military production facilities, supports thousands of jobs in the process.

The way this stuff is reported by our abject media you’d think we were just sending Ukraine trucks of cash but that isn’t how this works at all.

I have to admit that for the last three years I’ve kept close to Putin’s war, trying to stay abreast of developments, and I always assumed Russia would eventually be pushed back or they would fall back due to economics taking their toll, or Putin would be toppled or something of that nature. I never seriously entertained the idea that this would escalate to all-out-war (conventional or otherwise). That is until today. I feel like it has only just clicked with me that it is a very real possibility. I would have sympathy if other European leaders are gradually having the same epiphany.

Feels like it’s high time for deciding if we are going to be on the right side of history.
 
roubaixtuesday said:



The first paragraph is, so better than expected! 2nd one silly and unhelpful sniping.
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But true. Defence spending should have risen to 3% the day Russia invaded Ukraine.
From 1984 on (when defence spending was 5% of GDP) we took the peace dividend far to far.
2% was just too low.
Both Tory, Coalition snd Labour are at fault.
 
If the US has spent more than $97bn, I'm sure Trump can wheel out Treasury officials to prove it.
They haven't spent more, so that won't happen.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
The Yanks were more than happy to drag NATO into Iraq twice and Afghanistan, now their current version of a president wants to abandon Europe and cuddle up to a long term enemy in Russia to blackmail Ukraine into giving over its precious metals. Their tactic of potentially ethically cleansing Gaza could stir up another hornets nest of terrorism similar to what we saw with Al Qaeda in the 90s and 2000s, when that happens they will want our troops, Royal Air Force and Royal Navy to go and help them level which part of the Middle East does it to them. I hope we remember the choices they made now and tell them to go fuck themselves.
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Sorry but NATO didn't deploy in either Iraq war. I thought the second Iraq war was a mistake, but refusing to support your allies' geopolitical priorities is a two-way street and Europe is learning that now.

I also wouldn't conflate the UK with mainland Europe. Most Americans have a more positive view of the UK. That said I don't see that Starmer has an actual strategy to win this war any more than we do. You'd need boots on the ground and nobody is willing to do that. As it stands Ukraine will continue to lose land and weaken their negotiating position.
 
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