Russian invasion of Ukraine

WT86 said:
Sorry but NATO didn't deploy in either Iraq war. I thought the second Iraq war was a mistake, but refusing to support your allies' geopolitical priorities is a two-way street and Europe is learning that now.

I also wouldn't conflate the UK with mainland Europe. Most Americans have a more positive view of the UK. That said I don't see that Starmer has an actual strategy to win this war any more than we do. You'd need boots on the ground and nobody is willing to do that. As it stands Ukraine will continue to lose land and weaken their negotiating position.
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You just have to give Ukraine the arms to wipe out the infestation of Ryssian vermin currently in Ukraine.
 
BlueAnorak said:
The EU response to Trump...
euromaidanpress.com

EU considers historic € 700 billion aid package for Ukraine as Trump signals reduction in Kyiv's support - Euromaidan Press

The European Union is reportedly preparing a multibillion-euro aid package for the purchase of military equipment for Ukraine…
euromaidanpress.com euromaidanpress.com
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Considering this, I wonder what Starmer will do to divy up the UK's share.
Passing a law to transfer frozen Russian assets in the UK (£22.7bn) directly to Ukraine would be a good start.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
Considering this, I wonder what Starmer will do to divy up the UK's share.
Passing a law to transfer frozen Russian assets in the UK (£22.7bn) directly to Ukraine would be a good start.
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An increase in borrowing to fund this would not have the same impact on UK finances if all our European allies do the same because relatively we’d be in the same position as them. We wouldn’t have to worry too much about the US taking advantage because Trump’s screwing up their economy all by himself with his idiotic policies.
 
inbetween said:
I can understand the anti-American sentiment and Trump's strategy is completely barmy but the biggest problem for Europe is Trump seemingly has something to give whereas Europe doesn't. The European strategy is essentially solidarity without actual solidarity, it's we'll give you money (actually to our arms industry) but beyond that we can't help you.

If Ukraine sovereignty is threatened and must be respected then surely that means we must go to war? That is precisely what happened in WW2 when European and even our own sovereignty was threatened. We didn't spend years sitting on the sidelines across the Channel arming the European resistance to do whatever they could at arms length.

If not then what are we talking about here? Ukraine has remained an issue for Europe for 3 years and yet they're still essentially fighting over the same yards of mud at a cost of hundreds of billions. Ukraine physically cannot win this alone, that's just a fact.

Something has to give and Trump's cabal have seized the narrative because quite simply there is nothing else. If Europe is serious then we need to get serious whilst cautioning what that could truly mean. If we're only capable of talking and shouting about our fury then we may as well give the game up now.
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Utter rubbish.
First: Europe gives more to Ukraine that the US - about 60%-40% and the percentage split was due to increase this year to about 70%-30% probably 100%from Europe from now on with Trump at the helm.
Second: You don't treat an ally like Trump has just done with Zelensky/Ukraine.
Third: you don't negotiate with Putin by surrendering as Trump has just done.
Fourth. Russia is in serious trouble economically and is running out of Stuff to stand a chance of winning this war. The offensive has clearly slowed to a crawl. Indeed Russia is starting to lose a little ground in many places now.
 
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I'm sick of Trumps lies on the Ukraine war and he has only been doing it for a few days. The EU and the UK need to draw a line under this rubbish and come out with a statement, correcting his bullshit narrative.

They should point out in categorical terms who started this war, that Russia is destabilising Europe, that elections in Russia are not free and democratic, point out exactly where the funding for Ukraine has come from. And finally and more importantly point out that history judges those that do the right thing and who do not side with dictators. If he wants to side with Putins tin pot Russia, good luck, but we won't be joining you.
 
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I see Trump spoke more shit yesterday evening.
Claiming Zelensky had reneiged on a deal for Rare Earth's.

What Rare Earth's deal?
It wasn't a deal it was an 'offer' Trump made.
What exactly did Ukraine get in return for 50% of Ukraines Rare Earth mineral rights in the offer?

That's right - Zero, Zip, Nada, Nowt, Nothing.
Just repayment of a zillion times more than the current cost of the old weapons than Ukraine actually got from the US.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
I see Trump spoke more shit yesterday evening.
Claiming Zelensky had reneiged on a deal for Rare Earth's.

What Rare Earth's deal?
It wasn't a deal it was an 'offer' Trump made.
What exactly did Ukraine get in return for 50% of Ukraines Rare Earth mineral rights?

That's right - Zero, Zip, Nada, Nowt, Nothing
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I expect this is what has driven the timing and precipitousness of this shift, although it was almost certainly going to happen sooner or later in any event.

Was never a fan of George W Bush, far from it, nor his old man - but can you imagine either of them behaving in such a way? Trying to extort natural resources from a democratic sovereign nation with the consequence of refusal being them openly siding with that country’s autocratic and murderous enemy. It’s absolutely shameful.

That is what we are dealing with, and we need to recalibrate our foreign policy accordingly, and sharpish.
 
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