President Trump

Haalands Agent said:
Some of your points above are correct, but unfortunately, you fail to address the larger narrative. You also fail to address the main point of Russia's national security and its responsibility to protect itself. Let's try again.
So If, say, a South American country decided to join the Russia Alliance, if there was such a thing, say Argentina, for example. And then, over a few years, the Russian Alliance moves steadily Northwards. At what point do you think America would say you can't put any weapons or biolabs on our border?
As for a more detailed assesment of the historical chain of events, I like to take the word of someone closely involved rather than BBC propaganda.
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Hi Vlad we missed you.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Is Trump going to Fort Knox not to find the "stolen gold" but to find some gold to bail him out of the shit? No tax income from millions of fired workers will need to be replaced to keep the US afloat
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Not paying them should go a long way toward that.
 
Haalands Agent said:
Some of your points above are correct, but unfortunately, you fail to address the larger narrative. You also fail to address the main point of Russia's national security and its responsibility to protect itself. Let's try again.
So If, say, a South American country decided to join the Russia Alliance, if there was such a thing, say Argentina, for example. And then, over a few years, the Russian Alliance moves steadily Northwards. At what point do you think America would say you can't put any weapons or biolabs on our border?
As for a more detailed assesment of the historical chain of events, I like to take the word of someone closely involved rather than BBC propaganda.
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You overlook three points.

1) Russia and the US are separated by a channel 2.4 miles wide between Big Diomede Island and Little Diomede Island. The mainland of Siberian Russia is 53 miles from the mainland of US (Alaska). If Russia ever wanted to invade or point missiles at the US it wouldn't need to work its way up from Argentina, your analogy of which is just hypothetical nonsense.

2) Russia already has 6 NATO countries bordering its territory in Europe. Norway (an original member of NATO), Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland which completely negates your argument. If it so wishes what's to stop NATO siting missiles in any of those countries already?

3) Russia has nuclear missiles capable of reaching anywhere in Europe including the UK. Do you think Russia will ever pull these missiles back far enough east to be out of range of Europe.
 
Haalands Agent said:
Let me get this straight. You dislike the work Trump and Musk are doing, uncovering and sharing with the American people the colossal levels of waste and corruption within the branches of the American Government. Is that somehow a bad thing?
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Congratulations, you've brought new levels of naivety and stupidity to this thread, which, tbh, is quite some achievement
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
A YouTube video? Yes that definitely helps. Great citation of a Russo-NATO treaty that the latter would not move eastwards. That’s definitely showed me.
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I wouldn't dismiss it because it's on YouTube. It was a speech to the EU Parliament. No-one took much notice there. "Let's give Putin a hug... he invaded Ukraine because they weren't neutral enough"
 
Haalands Agent said:
Let me get this straight. You dislike the work Trump and Musk are doing, uncovering and sharing with the American people the colossal levels of waste and corruption within the branches of the American Government. Is that somehow a bad thing?
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It's certainly a bad thing if it's not targeted, not researched, not planned and ultimately if you cutting costs without any thought to how it's going to effect government services.

I doubt anyone would have any problems with a government policy to uncover waste, inefficiency and corruption. Even if Musk was involved with it (subject to conflicts of interest).

That's not what is happening right now,
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
If true, this is genuinely fucking embarrassing and extremely childish. A $Billionaire with the emotional intelligence of a pre-pubescent teenage boy.

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I agree, but it was always going to end up here.

Old timers will remember Reagan banging on about getting government off the people's back, getting it out of the way, how public sector jobs aren't "real jobs". Same with the Tories here babbling on about the blob, cutting red tape, efficiency drives that don't effect "front line" services.

It's only a hop, skip and a jump to arrive at Planet Musk, that it's not bureaucracy that's the problem, but government itself. Bloating bureaucracy is just a symptom of the steady drip, drip of bleeding heart liberalism and the public sector is its agent.

That's why Musk behaves the way he does, he is just an adviser, he's not a federal agency, he has no authority to do what he's attempting to do, only the government can do this, and even then it would require a monolithic state to do it in the way he's proposing, where trifles like the constitution, the ballot box, government procedure, oversight, departmental responsibility and the rule of law mean nothing, you know, like North Korea, where the Great Leader's word is sacrosanct. That's why I say this is not primarily a war on bureaucracy but government as envisaged by the Founding Fathers.

What Musk and Trump want is a complete reboot, to dramatically shrink the state to something akin to before the First World War. The complete defeat of what Thatcher referred to as "the nanny state", a radical reset of the relationship between government and the people.

Once you see it that way, using the tactics of shock and awe and handing the job to a sociopath makes perfect sense.
 
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The perfect fumble said:
I agree, but it was always going to end up here.

Old timers will remember Reagan banging on about getting government off the people's back, getting it out of the way, how public sector jobs aren't "real jobs". Same with the Tories here babbling on about the blob, cutting red tape, efficiency drives that don't effect "front line" services.

It's only a hop, skip and jump to to arrive at Planet Musk, that it's not bureaucracy that's the problem, but government itself. Bloating bureaucracy is just a symptom of the steady drip, drip of bleeding heart liberalism and the public sector is its agent.

That's why Musk behaves the way he does, he is just an adviser, he's not a federal agency, he has no authority to do what he's attempting to do, only the government can do this, and even then it would require a monolithic state to do it in the way he's proposing, where trifles like government procedure and oversight and departmental responsibility and the rule of law mean nothing, you know, like North Korea, where the Great Leader's word is sacrosanct. That is why I say this is not primarily a war on bureaucracy but government as envisaged by the Founding Fathers.

What Musk and Trump want is a complete reboot, to dramatically shrink the state to something akin to before the First World War. The complete defeat of what Thatcher referred to as "the nanny state", a radical reset of the relationship between government and the people.

Once you see it that way, using the tactics of shock and awe and handing the job to a sociopath makes perfect sense.
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If I was doing a PhD in modern history I would study the transition from the (relatively) sane world of the 60s and 70s, the changes brought in during the 80s by Reagan/Thatcher and their effects we are still experiencing today.

Didn't feel like it at the time, but the 70s seem to have been the last decade when the general consensus was that society was important and we didn't have a world where success was measured by how many people you could climb over to get nearer to the top.

We now have a world led by people brought up in the 80s and 90s who don't know any different and they believe their world is normal and good.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
In fairness to Dax, I don’t think he will be elected again.
What the alternatives are though, are unclear to me at this point.
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I don't think it's so much about being elected again, it's more about trying to be elected again and the message that sends.
 
Ashton Moss Messi said:
If I was doing a PhD in modern history I would study the transition from the (relatively) sane world of the 60s and 70s, the changes brought in during the 80s by Reagan/Thatcher and their effects we are still experiencing today.

Didn't feel like it at the time, but the 70s seem to have been the last decade when the general consensus was that society was important and we didn't have a world where success was measured by how many people you could climb over to get nearer to the top.

We now have a world led by people brought up in the 80s and 90s who don't know any different and they believe their world is normal and good.
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In order to save the state Trump has to destroy it, that's why he sits at his desk waving his pen, signing stuff into being that in many cases he has no authority to do, stuff that runs straight into a roadblock in the courts.

This is wrecking ball stuff in a hurry, he's a destroyer not a creator, he has no clear ideology beyond unfettered self interest. He isn't even a fascist, fascists actually believe in something. He's a sociopath, a ragbag of right wing prejudices, he has no clear ideas that last longer than his last utterance, the thoughts of the last guy in the room. He uses fascist tactics for sure, because fascists are authoritarian and he's an authoritarian and it's the only way he can get rid of stuff fast, stuff that prevents him from winning for himself and his buddies and winning is what it's about,

But winning, winning a lot and all the time, creates losers, lots and lots of losers.

So it's fuck Ukraine, fuck Mexico, Canada, Greenland, Gaza, The EU, NATO, America's standing in the world, all that wonderful soft power decades in the making, fuck his followers, the poor and even fuck the American economy, which he reckons he'll patch up, sort of, somehow, someways down the road.

But when he fails miserably, which he will, it'll be fuck the lot of you! Coz he'll still declare a win, coz it will be for him and his mates, because, as we all know, in the end that's all that matters.
 
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flook said:
I don't think it's so much about being elected again, it's more about trying to be elected again and the message that sends.
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He may try, but I’d think other alternatives including trying to reinterpret the constitution, which Dax rules out, may be one option.
There are other possibilities too I’m sure, including perhaps something akin to emergency powers. Marshall law? Anything is possible with this wannabe King.

It’s conjecture, I will concede, but as pessimistic as I was about how Trumps 2nd term would go, I really didn’t see things as bad so quickly.

Another flippant remark, but I genuinely feel this in the back of my mind,….. I would rather see an American Civil War, than a third world war.
Obviously I’d prefer neither.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
He may try, but I’d think other alternatives including trying to reinterpret the constitution, which Dax rules out, may be one option.
There are other possibilities too I’m sure, including perhaps something akin to emergency powers. Marshall law? Anything is possible with this wannabe King.

It’s conjecture, I will concede, but as pessimistic as I was about how Trumps 2nd term would go, I really didn’t see things as bad so quickly.

Another flippant remark, but I genuinely feel this in the back of my mind,….. I would rather see an American Civil War, than a third world war.
Obviously I’d prefer neither.
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I’ll repeat — special government employee. Get Congress to drop the 130-day tenure limit before the mid-terms while it’s all red. GOP candidate (like Vance) is probably a Trump surrogate/courtier. He/she wins in 28, and appoints Trump an SGE for four years.

Musk is a test run.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I’ll repeat — special government employee. Get Congress to drop the 130-day tenure limit before the mid-terms while it’s all red. GOP candidate (like Vance) is probably a Trump surrogate/courtier. He/she wins in 28, and appoints Trump an SGE for life.

Musk is a test run.
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This is what Putin did - became "Prime Minister" and set up Medvedev as "President", but of course Putin actually stayed in power.

Trump's going to be pretty decrepit by then though, so I'd guess family member installed with Trump power behind the throne is more likely?
 
roubaixtuesday said:
This is what Putin did - became "Prime Minister" and set up Medvedev as "President", but of course Putin actually stayed in power.

Trump's going to be pretty decrepit by then though, so I'd guess family member installed with Trump power behind the throne is more likely?
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Yes, or the ultimate in Trump loyalty toadies — whomever proves themselves most obsequious and craven.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
He may try, but I’d think other alternatives including trying to reinterpret the constitution, which Dax rules out, may be one option.
There are other possibilities too I’m sure, including perhaps something akin to emergency powers. Marshall law? Anything is possible with this wannabe King.

It’s conjecture, I will concede, but as pessimistic as I was about how Trumps 2nd term would go, I really didn’t see things as bad so quickly.

Another flippant remark, but I genuinely feel this in the back of my mind,….. I would rather see an American Civil War, than a third world war.
Obviously I’d prefer neither.
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As others have suggested, there are other ways round it.

I think the problem with going to SCOTUS or any other way of getting round the 2-term limit is that it seems like a one-shot chance. If it fails, then people will see what the plan is and any later elections may become sticky.

Even if it passes, hoe will the people react? Democrats major on the alternative and it might swing the important states enough.

I realise that it's largely guesswork and they'll presumably have checked to see that they'll get all aspects through, because it's high risk.
 
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