Elon Musk

I'm With Stupid said:
More than any other product, I think people buy cars based on what they think it says about them. People might be willing to compromise for a very good deal, but try and sell a pink car to a man or a Lada to a teenager and see how far you get. And for a more political example, travel to Korea and see how many Japanese cars you see there as a result of the political animosity between the two countries. Electric cars are arguably the most current example of a virtue-signalling status symbol in the car world. Hell, you used to get Hollywood celebrities who could afford the latest Ferrari driving around in a Toyota Prius because of they thought it said about their values. It's not like other products where you can carry on buying the 'toxic' brand and no-one will notice (let's be honest, we all still buy Nestle even though we know they're awful). It's pretty obvious what car you've bought.
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Any Tesla I pass now is automatically considered to be an utter wanker in the drivers seat.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
More than any other product, I think people buy cars based on what they think it says about them. People might be willing to compromise for a very good deal, but try and sell a pink car to a man or a Lada to a teenager and see how far you get. And for a more political example, travel to Korea and see how many Japanese cars you see there as a result of the political animosity between the two countries. Electric cars are arguably the most current example of a virtue-signalling status symbol in the car world. Hell, you used to get Hollywood celebrities who could afford the latest Ferrari driving around in a Toyota Prius because of they thought it said about their values. It's not like other products where you can carry on buying the 'toxic' brand and no-one will notice (let's be honest, we all still buy Nestle even though we know they're awful). It's pretty obvious what car you've bought.
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I agree in general though TBH I am leasing my first electric car now (not a Tesla) and I didn’t do it for the status — I did it to see how different my life would be free from a gas pump, and how different the driving experience would be. It’s been fun to drive (zippy pickup) but I’m not sure I’d do it again simply because of range issues that prevent or make less convenient long trips. The hybrid seems the best compromise of good gas mileage and performance. But I also am not a car guy.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I agree in general though TBH I am leasing my first electric car now (not a Tesla) and I didn’t do it for the status — I did it to see how different my life would be free from a gas pump, and how different the driving experience would be. It’s been fun to drive (zippy pickup) but I’m not sure I’d do it again simply because of range issues that prevent or make less convenient long trips. The hybrid seems the best compromise of good gas mileage and performance. But I also am not a car guy.
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Well yeah, not everyone who has an electric car has it because they want to show what a great person they are. Some people genuinely do give a shit about the environment, enough to pay a premium for a (let's be honest) less convenient, flexible option. And others will have been convinced by the various schemes like cheaper fuel, free charging, low emission zones, etc. But it still doesn't change the fact that a car is a massive status symbol based around image for most people. Hell, just to take your example, look at the popularity of the pickup truck. A completely pointless vehicle to 99% of owners for all practical purposes. But it has an image that people like. And Tesla's image is now intrinsically tied up with Musk. I'm surprised there hasn't been a Model SS yet.

Electric car sales have been dropping more generally, and I think part of the reason is that the first wave of buyers were pretty rich people who can afford more than one car. Electric cars might be useful for 90% of your needs, but it's a much easier purchase if you've also got a petrol car for the other 10%.
 
bluethrunthru said:
The new Beemer/Audi
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Do the M6/5 run everyday and the cunts just pulling out in the outside lane, sat there at minimum speed because they’re nursing their battery.

Have no issues in giving them some shit, and don’t give a fuck if anybody reading this is one of those wankers.
 
In the UK if you do the miles per day/week that those who promote EV's say most of us do then buy a Dacia Spring - £15k all in to buy or £125 per month to lease. If that doesn't suit your needs you probably don't need an EV.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Well yeah, not everyone who has an electric car has it because they want to show what a great person they are. Some people genuinely do give a shit about the environment, enough to pay a premium for a (let's be honest) less convenient, flexible option. And others will have been convinced by the various schemes like cheaper fuel, free charging, low emission zones, etc. But it still doesn't change the fact that a car is a massive status symbol based around image for most people. Hell, just to take your example, look at the popularity of the pickup truck. A completely pointless vehicle to 99% of owners for all practical purposes. But it has an image that people like. And Tesla's image is now intrinsically tied up with Musk. I'm surprised there hasn't been a Model SS yet.

Electric car sales have been dropping more generally, and I think part of the reason is that the first wave of buyers were pretty rich people who can afford more than one car. Electric cars might be useful for 90% of your needs, but it's a much easier purchase if you've also got a petrol car for the other 10%.
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That’ll change though once batteries have improved sufficiently for most peoples’ usage.

Some car company needs to make a cheap EV with just the stuff you need to drive. It’d sell millions.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Well yeah, not everyone who has an electric car has it because they want to show what a great person they are. Some people genuinely do give a shit about the environment, enough to pay a premium for a (let's be honest) less convenient, flexible option. And others will have been convinced by the various schemes like cheaper fuel, free charging, low emission zones, etc. But it still doesn't change the fact that a car is a massive status symbol based around image for most people. Hell, just to take your example, look at the popularity of the pickup truck. A completely pointless vehicle to 99% of owners for all practical purposes. But it has an image that people like. And Tesla's image is now intrinsically tied up with Musk. I'm surprised there hasn't been a Model SS yet.

Electric car sales have been dropping more generally, and I think part of the reason is that the first wave of buyers were pretty rich people who can afford more than one car. Electric cars might be useful for 90% of your needs, but it's a much easier purchase if you've also got a petrol car for the other 10%.
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Don’t think they are dropping are they?
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Electric car sales have been dropping more generally, and I think part of the reason is that the first wave of buyers were pretty rich people who can afford more than one car. Electric cars might be useful for 90% of your needs, but it's a much easier purchase if you've also got a petrol car for the other 10%.
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That’s no true though. They’re up by 34% in Europe whilst Tesla sales are down nearly 50%

 
SSL2 said:
it’s more than just about the sales for me.

robotaxi & fully self driving software around the corner.

they’re more than just a car company, with Optimus robots in the pipeline too - which is why I will continue to hold

maybe i’ll be proved wrong, but let’s see.

glad I can have a proper discussion with yourself, despite the other clowns on this thread.
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inbetween said:
I don't think we're in some levelling down due to his behaviour. What's really happening is everybody who bought prior to the election are now cashing in. The same behaviour that led people to buy is now leading people to sell. It has nothing to do with the company.

TSLA has always been a volatile stock for every reason except the performance of the company. I mean 15 years ago everybody said that the company would fail completely and yet anybody who bought shares then is probably now a millionaire. The stock itself is after all why Musk is classed as the richest man in the world and has the company ever even made a real profit?

If we only considered the dull world of company performance then if you invested $1000 in Ford today then this time next year you'd probably still have $1000 and that's if you're lucky. If you only invest in stocks based upon that then you'd be best leaving the money in the bank as it's far likely to be safer...

Personally I think people will quickly get bored of the politics. I mean christ who buys a car based upon the political nature of it, I for one couldn't give a toss. There is no moral argument really anyway and certainly not from the European manufacturers who for example fit cheat devices to cheat emissions tests.
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Tesla still has a PE ratio of around 150 compared to typical car companies in single figures or large tech companies that are around 40 to 50. This would be typical of a company that is just starting to make money and is expected to grow massively going forward. Tesla has been making money for years and its growth prospects are no different to many of its peers in automotive and tech. It is falling down the rankings in the EV market with lots of competition. In terms of self drive there’s other companies doing as well or better than Tesla. For example Waymo (a Google company) are much more visible in many areas. And as for full autonomy unrestricted self drive, Tesla have been failing to meet their promises time after time (unsurprisingly for those familiar with the complexity of developing safety critical systems). Optimus is another one that’s all hype and unlikely to meet their promised timescales for mass production. Musk’s strategy appears to be to get rid of the regulatory environment that would minimise the risk of his products killing people to make it easier to bring them to market.

Tesla is a classic bubble with a share price that is reliant on Musk and now it’s becoming apparent to more people that the emperor has no clothes and the bubble’s going to burst. I think it’s already starting and I can see a share price collapse of maybe 75% over the next couple of months. They still have some decent products and are profitable though so it won’t collapse completely but I can see its PE reverting to something more typical to what’s normally seen in the tech sector for established large tech companies.
 
west didsblue said:
Tesla still has a PE ratio of around 150 compared to typical car companies in single figures or large tech companies that are around 40 to 50. This would be typical of a company that is just starting to make money and is expected to grow massively going forward. Tesla has been making money for years and its growth prospects are no different to many of its peers in automotive and tech. It is falling down the rankings in the EV market with lots of competition. In terms of self drive there’s other companies doing as well or better than Tesla. For example Waymo (a Google company) are much more visible in many areas. And as for full autonomy unrestricted self drive, Tesla have been failing to meet their promises time after time (unsurprisingly for those familiar with the complexity of developing safety critical systems). Optimus is another one that’s all hype and unlikely to meet their promised timescales for mass production. Musk’s strategy appears to be to get rid of the regulatory environment that would minimise the risk of his products killing people to make it easier to bring them to market.

Tesla is a classic bubble with a share price that is reliant on Musk and now it’s becoming apparent to more people that the emperor has no clothes and the bubble’s going to burst. I think it’s already starting and I can see a share price collapse of maybe 75% over the next couple of months. They still have some decent products and are profitable though so it won’t collapse completely but I can see its PE reverting to something more typical to what’s normally seen in the tech sector for established large tech companies.
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Totally agree. I think inbetween is miles off the mark on this one.
 
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