Russian invasion of Ukraine

Jimmieblue said:
I mean an election in Ukraine! The Russians don’t have elections. I’m being called naive on hear. Anyway I do think this is all set up, the whole thing. Timings too convient. Trump will get his way, NATO will step up, it will cost us more and Ukraine and Russia will be falling out for years to come. Russia won’t allow foreign troops on the ground and it will go on for years.
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Ok. Let’s say they do. Zelenskyy is very popular in Ukraine and he may well win any such election.

Then what?
 
Jimmieblue said:
Sorry about your 2 aunts. I’m very lucky to have been born in a free liberal democracy, which I am keen to keep that way, but it seems to be changing at the moment. I’m sorry for the situation in Ukraine it must be horrid.
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Something the Ukrainians are fighting desperately for, of course.
 
Ronnie the Rep said:
Ok. Let’s say they do. Zelenskyy is very popular in Ukraine and he may well win any such election.

Then what?
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An election would prove that he is popular, some doubt it. If he is, just carry on doing what we are doing. If he’s elected, he now wants to make up with US, I’m sure that will happen. Some security agreements with US while they raid the earth elements. No troops on the ground because Putin won’t agree to that ever. He withdraws from the agreed bits. NATO pays more to rebuild Ukraine and we all live happy ever after, but poorer.
 
Jimmieblue said:
An election would prove that he is popular, some doubt it. If he is, just carry on doing what we are doing. If he’s elected, he now wants to make up with US, I’m sure that will happen. Some security agreements with US while they raid the earth elements. No troops on the ground because Putin won’t agree to that ever. He withdraws from the agreed bits. NATO pays more to rebuild Ukraine and we all live happy ever after, but poorer.
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Seriously. Do you honestly believe a fair election could be held in Ukraine?
 
Jimmieblue said:
An election would prove that he is popular, some doubt it. If he is, just carry on doing what we are doing. If he’s elected, he now wants to make up with US, I’m sure that will happen. Some security agreements with US while they raid the earth elements. No troops on the ground because Putin won’t agree to that ever. He withdraws from the agreed bits. NATO pays more to rebuild Ukraine and we all live happy ever after, but poorer.
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He has nothing to make up for he did fuck all wrong, Putin can say what he wants but doesn’t mean Ukraine will agree to it, what do you think security agreements could be? Say to Putin if you bomb them we will intervene, Trump is too much of a coward to do that, the only way is troops there, fuck what Russia wants.
 
Jimmieblue said:
An election would prove that he is popular, some doubt it. If he is, just carry on doing what we are doing. If he’s elected, he now wants to make up with US, I’m sure that will happen. Some security agreements with US while they raid the earth elements. No troops on the ground because Putin won’t agree to that ever. He withdraws from the agreed bits. NATO pays more to rebuild Ukraine and we all live happy ever after, but poorer.
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How do you propose they have a safe and unhindered election? 20% of Ukraine is under Russian control, so cant vote there. Larger areas being bombed regularly, cant safely vote there.

Russia renowned for interfering with elections. and would certainly interfeer with this one. and if any vote did happen Russia would just denounce it as rigged if it didn't go there way.

The UN cant put inspectors on the ground as Russia again would kick up a fuss etc etc

I can understand the premis of the idea of an election but the logistics of how to actually have one while under daily bombardment is another matter. generally when being invaded elections are paused.

www.idea.int

Explainer: Conducting elections during war

www.idea.int www.idea.int
 
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grunge said:
How do you propose they have a safe and unhindered election? 20% of Ukraine is under Russian control, so cant vote there. Larger areas being bombed regularly, cant safely vote there.

Russia renowned for interfering with elections. and would certainly interfeer with this one. and if any vote did happen Russia would just denounce it as rigged if it didn't go there way.

The UN cant put inspectors on the ground as Russia again would kick up a fuss etc etc

I can understand the premis of the idea of an election but the logistics of how to actually have one while under daily bombardment is another matter. generally when being invaded elections are paused.
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How can you doubt free and fair elections? Didn’t those 20% vote by overwhelming majority to be part of the Russian motherland? Seemed entirely kosher at the time.
 
meeesh said:
I asked a couple of genuine questions mate yesterday that's all, but as you quite rightly mention, the noise has made it irrelevant now.

Unfortunately, and I should have known better, it's pointless now, as I didn't get anything of relevance back, which is weird considering how many have had an input on this thread.

But I did learn that the UK is in Europe, funny that, as I'm 54 in a couple of week and never knew that, oh and I have tourettes as well apparently.

I won't say nothing more on this thread, but just peruse it for a few giggles as experts fall over themselves talking shit, but throwing an odd stat in here and there, funny innit how stats come into play when they in fact don't paint the whole picture.
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Stats are only used in 54.3% of all arguments.
 
mosssideblue said:
Why are you so keen to see an election and what outcome from the election would you want?
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Well I’m trying not to be swayed by misinformation, which is not easy these days. Truthfully I’m not convinced that Zelensky is what he says he is. Only time will tell I think.
 
Blue Maverick said:
He has nothing to make up for he did fuck all wrong, Putin can say what he wants but doesn’t mean Ukraine will agree to it, what do you think security agreements could be? Say to Putin if you bomb them we will intervene, Trump is too much of a coward to do that, the only way is troops there, fuck what Russia wants.
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Wish I was young and mobile enough both me and a guy who served together 50 years ago would volunteer
 
Jimmieblue said:
An election would prove that he is popular, some doubt it. If he is, just carry on doing what we are doing. If he’s elected, he now wants to make up with US, I’m sure that will happen. Some security agreements with US while they raid the earth elements. No troops on the ground because Putin won’t agree to that ever. He withdraws from the agreed bits. NATO pays more to rebuild Ukraine and we all live happy ever after, but poorer.
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If the resignation of a leader is a key requirement for peace, then surely we should be demanding Putin go just as loudly as we're demanding Zelensky go.

But a lot of people are very quiet on the concessions that Russia need to make. It's pure propaganda.
 
moomba said:
If the resignation of a leader is a key requirement for peace, then surely we should be demanding Putin go just as loudly as we're demanding Zelensky go.

But a lot of people are very quiet on the concessions that Russia need to make. It's pure propaganda.
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I think people have called for Putin to go for a long time, but that’s not going to happen he’s got a firm grip unfortunately. It’s all very delicate at the moment.
 
Jimmieblue said:
I think people have called for Putin to go for a long time, but that’s not going to happen he’s got a firm grip unfortunately. It’s all very delicate at the moment.
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So your idea for negotiation is to Ukraine to make concession after concession, but let Russia carry on as normal because it's too hard.

It echoes the Trump/MAGA approach 100% but it isn't negotiation.
 
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