What is it you are not allowed to say?

[City Hobgoblin]

Recreational drugs have had their day. All they produce is fucktards like Vance, gangs of twats stabbing each other over turf wars, and zombified homeless casualties. Oh, and a bit of middle class fun.

 

[burning blue soul]

What are we not allowed to say,,,,?

With all the gun crime, stabbings, drug crimes in London is it coincidence that the majority of it, like it or not, seems to involve either as perpetrators or victims, people of colour.

Every time I hear of a stabbing or a shooting in London this seems to be the case, often it is a person of colour on another person of colour. What I really would like to know is: is this being addressed as a specific issue or is the whole of the type crime being lumped together and being treated as a single issue. In this day and age of statistics and trends I never see any such breakdown or discussion of these figures. It's happening too frequently for it to be continually swept under the carpet.

Also the fact that Police do many, some say too many stop and search checks and in the majority it is of people of colour who are stopped and searched can surely be be of no surprise. Also is it not good news that so many searches are being carried out? It is unfortunate that there are so many people of colour being stopped and searched but.... if the description the police officer receives is on an individual or individuals is IC3 then I'm afraid the police are not going to stop and check caucasians are they? Do we really want them to?

There that is something I don't think we are allowed to say even though many (though not all) may think it.

What you are alluding to is a social issue rather than a racial issue.
And that social issue is completely solvable, but is consciously not being.

 

[BrianW]

Many of the allegations made about black/brown people could be and were made about the Irish in the 19th century.

It's an objective fact that immigrants tend to be proportionately more involved in crime*, but that does not mean that all immigrants are or their descendants will be.

The answer? There isn't one. Or at least not a simple one. However moral panics and casual racism help no one.

* This is also true of poor people in general, but again, not all poor people are criminals.

If you want to reduce crime the best way to go about it is to make people more educated, more secure and more prosperous. But this is far easier said than done and it requires investment on a large scale. That costs.

 

[M16 citeh]

Many of the allegations made about black/brown people could be and were made about the Irish in the 19th century.

It's an objective fact that immigrants tend to be proportionately more involved in crime*, but that does not mean that all immigrants are or their descendants will be.

The answer? There isn't one. Or at least not a simple one. However moral panics and casual racism help no one.

* This is also true of poor people in general, but again, not all poor people are criminals.

If you want to reduce crime the best way to go about it is to make people more educated, more secure and more prosperous. But this is far easier said than done and it requires investment on a large scale. That costs.

It's all about class not race. See knife crime in Glasgow for reference. No one was saying knife crime was a white problem.

 

[BrianW]

It's all about class not race. See knife crime in Glasgow for reference. No one was saying knife crime was a white problem.

I would say class allied to poverty and lack of opportunity.

When I was a lad in Gorton, we were all broke but we didn't go around stabbing each other and selling drugs. In part, I think, because you could see opportunities at various levels. It might all have been a bit dull, but we all had prospects.

 

[stonerblue]

It's all about class not race. See knife crime in Glasgow for reference. No one was saying knife crime was a white problem.

Yep. breaking it down into skin colour is just agenda driven bollocks.

 

[stonerblue]

I would say class allied to poverty and lack of opportunity.

When I was a lad in Gorton, we were all broke but we didn't go around stabbing each other and selling drugs. In part, I think, because you could see opportunities at various levels. It might all have been a bit dull, but we all had prospects.

Not sure how old you are but when i was a teen in the late 70's knife crime and drugs were always around.

 

[BrianW]

Not sure how old you are but when i was a teen in the late 70's knife crime and drugs were always around.

A bit older than thee, lad.

I was probably at the tail end of the time when working-class lads (and girls) were virtually assured of some kind of job/career that would give you a future. Not necessarily to be a millionaire, but with the assurance you wouldn't starve. You had to be a bit of a waster not to get onto the ladder, and even wasters had some sort of option beyond the dole.

Then the world changed. And it largely turned to shit for working-class people, bar spivs and wide boys, and especially for the young. It seems to me that now you need to be a total brainbox or a good bullshitter.

 

[ballbag]

Many of the allegations made about black/brown people could be and were made about the Irish in the 19th century.

It's an objective fact that immigrants tend to be proportionately more involved in crime*, but that does not mean that all immigrants are or their descendants will be.

The answer? There isn't one. Or at least not a simple one. However moral panics and casual racism help no one.

* This is also true of poor people in general, but again, not all poor people are criminals.

If you want to reduce crime the best way to go about it is to make people more educated, more secure and more prosperous. But this is far easier said than done and it requires investment on a large scale. That costs.

This is similar to what my old man used to say to me. It's usually down to poverty and neglect. When he came over from Ireland in the 70s he was treated like shit, as were most of the people he went to De La Salle with (Hopwood now in midd).

Labelled a thick paddy and all that good stuff. Had plenty of trouble around where the students had digs, and then on Tweedale Street in Rochdale.

Then the Asian community started living in Rochdale. And then they took the shit the Irish got.

It's fuck all to do with race or religion.

 

[stonerblue]

Recreational drugs have had their day. All they produce is fucktards like Vance, gangs of twats stabbing each other over turf wars, and zombified homeless casualties. Oh, and a bit of middle class fun.

Sure.

 

[inbetween]

A bit older than thee, lad.

I was probably at the tail end of the time when working-class lads (and girls) were virtually assured of some kind of job/career that would give you a future. Not necessarily to be a millionaire, but with the assurance you wouldn't starve. You had to be a bit of a waster not to get onto the ladder, and even wasters had some sort of option beyond the dole.

Then the world changed. And it largely turned to shit for working-class people, bar spivs and wide boys, and especially for the young. It seems to me that now you need to be a total brainbox or a good bullshitter.

The thing that changed is globalisation and rapid advances in technology. That change itself isn't a huge problem but the pace is a massive problem given it has happened in literally one generation. It hasn't allowed people to adapt, move or gain new skills etc.

I always use this example but there is a truck company near me which only around 20-30 years ago employed thousands of people. The company now employs less than 1,000 people but they make more trucks than before. The reason for this is obviously automation but you can only ask where did thousands of people disappear to?

If you multiply this across many similar industries then you can see why the working classes are being left behind. I still think this sort of thing is a major reason why people voted for Brexit. The working classes are basically being left to rot and it isn't because they're stupid or inferior but rather because there is just a lack of meaningful work.

The one area that is still guaranteed is trades however our education system is just a joke, especially in how it focuses on academia/university instead of something more relevant to work. The fact that we for example have trade shortages whilst there is no way for people to get skilled up at any age (for free) is just ridiculous. Anybody can quite easily get on a debt laden £9k university course but they'd have to pay cash to learn to be an electrician.

The government for example wants to insulate 20 million homes over the next decade and also build millions of homes but how does it plan to do it without people? It's no wonder that we are solely reliant on immigration to fill these gaps, it's also no wonder that the working classes are miffed and often unfortunately blame immigrants.

 

[BobKowalski]

The thing that changed is globalisation and rapid advances in technology. That change itself isn't a huge problem but the pace is a massive problem given it has happened in literally one generation. It hasn't allowed people to adapt, move or gain new skills etc.

I always use this example but there is a truck company near me which only around 20-30 years ago employed thousands of people. The company now employs less than 1,000 people but they make more trucks than before. The reason for this is obviously automation but you can only ask where did thousands of people disappear to?

If you multiply this across many similar industries then you can see why the working classes are being left behind. I still think this sort of thing is a major reason why people voted for Brexit. The working classes are basically being left to rot and it isn't because they're stupid or inferior but rather because there is just a lack of meaningful work.

The one area that is still guaranteed is trades however our education system is just a joke, especially in how it focuses on academia/university instead of something more relevant to work. The fact that we for example have trade shortages whilst there is no way for people to get skilled up at any age (for free) is just ridiculous. Anybody can quite easily get on a debt laden £9k university course but they'd have to pay cash to learn to be an electrician.

The government for example wants to insulate 20 million homes over the next decade and also build millions of homes but how does it plan to do it without people? It's no wonder that we are solely reliant on immigration to fill these gaps, it's also no wonder that the working classes are miffed.

Not sure sticking bits of a truck together on an assembly line is ‘meaningful work’ and to go to University isn’t free irrespective of what you are studying. If someone does want to learn a trade then there are trade colleges and schools.

We do have a labour shortage and trades people are always in demand, so I’m not sure what is stopping anyone from taking up a trade if they are keen to pursue one.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Not sure sticking bits of a truck together on an assembly line is ‘meaningful work’ and to go to University isn’t free irrespective of what you are studying. If someone does want to learn a trade then there are trade colleges and schools.

We do have a labour shortage and trades people are always in demand, so I’m not sure what is stopping anyone from taking up a trade if they are keen to pursue one.

I'm interested in this for a mate of mine....I'd love his kid to get a trade.

In my day everyone just applied to Direct Works and became whatever trade you wanted.

What is the script these days?

(on a side note the scrotes around my way robbing all the houses and cars are 100% white scumbags. Am I allowed to say that?) I have evidence too. 3 years worth of CCTV and their 2 am activities which the police also now have.

 

[BrianW]

The bottom line is that society is inherently unjust; but if you say that, you get called a Communist! Many people believe that some kid living in Radcliffe or Hattersley can become the next Alan Sugar if they can but be bothered to get off their arse. And you know, for one kid, or two, out of tens of thousands that might be true. But even if it is, it doesn't help the rest.

As for Direct Labour Organisations, they were destroyed by Thatcherism. Because they were seen as Councils trading and competing 'unfairly' with the private sector. They could be inefficient, but there is no denying they were brilliant at training apprentices, many of whom went on to set up their own businesses. That facility has never been properly replaced.

But it's worth remembering (certainly in a place like Gorton) that there were umpteen factories (mostly private sector) that also took on apprentices, especially in various kinds of engineering. Most of those factories are gone, for various reasons, and if you're waiting for 'the market' to bring them back, you'll be waiting a long time.

There's no easy solution, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a bullshitter.

 

[stonerblue]

I'm interested in this for a mate of mine....I'd love his kid to get a trade.

In my day everyone just applied to Direct Works and became whatever trade you wanted.

What is the script these days?

(on a side note the scrotes around my way robbing all the houses and cars are 100% white scumbags. Am I allowed to say that?) I have evidence too. 3 years worth of CCTV and their 2 am activities which the police also now have.

Had a doozy yesterday;
I've clocked 2 lads dropping cars off a low loader and leaving them on the car park opposite my house. Coppers came round yesterday and asked if we had cameras that show car park. Apparently the cars are nicked, filled with drugs then left open for dealers to re-stock. Some spotty gimp on the estate running the scam and all involved are the UK's finest.

 

[snorky]

Badger baiting is great.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Fuck off you cunts!

 

[inbetween]

Not sure sticking bits of a truck together on an assembly line is ‘meaningful work’ and to go to University isn’t free irrespective of what you are studying. If someone does want to learn a trade then there are trade colleges and schools.

We do have a labour shortage and trades people are always in demand, so I’m not sure what is stopping anyone from taking up a trade if they are keen to pursue one.

It is meaningful because manufacturing work is semi-skilled/skilled so paid pretty well and you are producing a product with your own hands. There was also the opportunity to move across these kind of companies but globalism has put an end to a lot of that. Nobody working on the Toyota UK final assembly is going to move into the design offices given they're in Japan.

I looked at my local college and a basic carpentry course is £3,500 with only self-funding available. So an 18 year old can do an art university course essentially for free (tuition fees are loaned over many years and today will never be repaid) but a 50 year old can't do a carpentry course unless they self-pay upfront. I don't see how this serves us. There are apprenticeships but they're not always open and is a 50 year old going to do a 3 year course on £6.50ph?

Less kids are going into trades so if the government did have grand infrastructure objectives then where are the people going to come from to build it all? It is taking us 20 years and £100bn to build HS2 with the majority of money allocated to consultancies to milk us dry but the actual job intensive construction part is a fraction of this. Infrastructure is literally a job creation industry for the working classes but the funding is instead all allocated to consultancies and lawyers... And that's why our infrastructure will always remain shite.

When we talk of the working classes then this image below is basically a whack-a-mole for the various industries that have collapsed or been reduced in terms of job intensiveness within the last 20-40 years. There is no replacement in sight for these people so without training, upskilling, investment or just about anything then I guess it's just tough? Or do we just stick them all on welfare and call it a day? It's no wonder many of them voted Brexit.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

These days if you say you’re English they arrest you and throw you in jail

 

[threespires]

These days if you say you’re English they arrest you and throw you in jail

In jail? In actual jail?