Capital Punishment.

inbetween said:
This is tricky ground legally as to be offered such a thing somebody would need to plead guilty first and that might affect the right to a fair trial. IE, somebody could plead not guilty or guilty with the sway between either not relying upon the facts at trial but instead upon the idea that they could always avoid prison and just commit suicide.

This also impacts victims because do they want the convicted to snatch an easy way out of a long prison sentence? Personally I think you'd have to add a clause where victims could overrule such a decision. It then gets into a bit of a human rights nightmare to be honest.
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I’d have thought it you were innocent of a crime you’d want to clear your name rather than opt for death. I don’t disagree it’s legally, and morally for that matter, complicated.

I don’t think victims have the right to choose the punishment and in any case the bar would, for me, need to be set very high on what crimes (and or type of person the perpetrator is) fell within the scope of allowing the perpetrator to opt for death - this wouldn’t be first offence stuff but rather they’d have multiple victims in their current or a long list of prior convictions so landing on victim agreement would be impossible. Let’s be honest how many of us shed a tear when the likes of Ian Huntley or Fred West get a little prison justice?
 
Putting aside the debate on whether it's ethically/morally a good idea (I personally believe it isn't), I can give you some perspective as someone from a country where we still have capital punishment.

The arguments I hear in this country as to why it's a "good thing" are a complete joke from a utilitarian point of view. Our homicide rate here is significantly higher here than anywhere in Europe despite 27 states + the federal government having it and despite the fact the pro-death penalty crowd here has continuously argued it's a "crime deterrent."

The death penalty has accomplished nothing in the US outside of making us look like nutjobs to most of the rest of the developed world. And don't even get me started on the wrongfully-convicted individuals that have been put to death over the years.
 
SkyBlueAmerican said:
Putting aside the debate on whether it's ethically/morally a good idea (I personally believe it isn't), I can give you some perspective as someone from a country where we still have capital punishment.

The arguments I hear in this country as to why it's a "good thing" are a complete joke from a utilitarian point of view. Our homicide rate here is significantly higher here than anywhere in Europe despite 27 states + the federal government having it and despite the fact the pro-death penalty crowd here has continuously argued it's a "crime deterrent."

The death penalty has accomplished nothing in the US outside of making us look like nutjobs to most of the rest of the developed world. And don't even get me started on the wrongfully-convicted individuals that have been put to death over the years.
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Firstly I’ll say, I don’t disagree with you, but do you not think your gun laws and the right to bare arms might contribute to just a teenie weenie bit to your homocide rate.
Yes you do appear to be nut jobs but I think the right to arm bears or whatever it is plays a major part in this.
Actually, I’d be all for bears being armed. Imagine that when ye’all go hunting and the bear or the dear or moose or whatever started firing back.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Firstly I’ll say, I don’t disagree with you, but do you not think your gun laws and the right to bare arms might contribute to just a teenie weenie bit to your homocide rate.
Yes you do appear to be nut jobs but I think the right to arm bears or whatever it is plays a major part in this.
Actually, I’d be all for bears being armed. Imagine that when ye’all go hunting and the bear or the dear or moose or whatever started firing back.
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Don't disagree at all, the guns "help" for sure.

We still do however have a higher rate of non-firearm homicides than most developed nations though, which definitely undermines the "death penalty as a deterrent" argument:

No clue what's going on in Estonia though!

On a lighter note, deer are so stupid that if we started arming them I'd pretty sure they'd all just shoot each other and there wouldn't be anything left for the hunters.
 
"We teach people not to kill, by killing people"

It'll never come back to this country and nor should it.

It's costly and is rarely if ever cheaper than locking someone up for the remainder.
You can't be 100% sure- even if the person admits/pleads guilty

Here's where the twisted morals come in... Because although against capital punishment, if anyone killed my daughter I would probably do time in dishing out my own punishment. But that's no longer punishment and is revenge.

The state doesn't have that right. No one really has the right, but if someone hurts or kills a family member I wouldn't blame someone for exacting revenge.
 
Nethermoor said:
"We teach people not to kill, by killing people"

It'll never come back to this country and nor should it.

It's costly and is rarely if ever cheaper than locking someone up for the remainder.
You can't be 100% sure- even if the person admits/pleads guilty

Here's where the twisted morals come in... Because although against capital punishment, if anyone killed my daughter I would probably do time in dishing out my own punishment. But that's no longer punishment and is revenge.

The state doesn't have that right. No one really has the right, but if someone hurts or kills a family member I wouldn't blame someone for exacting revenge.
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It can be punishment and revenge, it needn't be one or the other. Also it can be 100% if for instance there is a crowd and its filmed.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Firstly I’ll say, I don’t disagree with you, but do you not think your gun laws and the right to bare arms might contribute to just a teenie weenie bit to your homocide rate.
Yes you do appear to be nut jobs but I think the right to arm bears or whatever it is plays a major part in this.
Actually, I’d be all for bears being armed. Imagine that when ye’all go hunting and the bear or the dear or moose or whatever started firing back.
Click to expand...
Put the crack pipe down, there's a good fellow.....
 
Should there be a death penalty?
Has it deterred anyone from committing murder?
The law of averages would say it probably has.
One danger though, is that a dictator could use it to eliminate his rivals.....
 
SkyBlueAmerican said:
Putting aside the debate on whether it's ethically/morally a good idea (I personally believe it isn't), I can give you some perspective as someone from a country where we still have capital punishment.

The arguments I hear in this country as to why it's a "good thing" are a complete joke from a utilitarian point of view. Our homicide rate here is significantly higher here than anywhere in Europe despite 27 states + the federal government having it and despite the fact the pro-death penalty crowd here has continuously argued it's a "crime deterrent."

The death penalty has accomplished nothing in the US outside of making us look like nutjobs to most of the rest of the developed world. And don't even get me started on the wrongfully-convicted individuals that have been put to death over the years.
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What about the cost of looking after these people who have committed heinous crimes? There are enough of them. three in recent times in the UK alone - The Nottingham murders, the Southport Murders The Bushey (John Hunt) Murders - off the top of my head in recent times. None of these people deserve ever to walk the streets again.

I mean the Government are looking at ways of cutting costs and saving money, what is the issue? Surely even the dyed in the wool lefties on here are not going to make the case for them ever being freed?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
What about the cost of looking after these people who have committed heinous crimes? There are enough of them. three in recent times in the UK alone - The Nottingham murders, the Southport Murders The Bushey (John Hunt) Murders - off the top of my head in recent times. None of these people deserve ever to walk the streets again.

I mean the Government are looking at ways of cutting costs and saving money, what is the issue? Surely even the dyed in the wool lefties on here are not going to make the case for them ever being freed?
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There you go, take the job and get rid of the nasties.

You are good for this, aren’t you?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
..... and your point is...? These people should be released back into society? Mine is they shouldn't and for the crimes they committed they are not worth the millions it costs us to keep them alive.
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As I said, sign up to take the shot. You’re obviously hardline, so get your finger on the trigger.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Why don't you just answer the question?

If you're not comfortable doing so, just say so!
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Do you really have to ask? You’re just a ‘big’ angry man who feels that this country owes you something. The people who do these heinous crimes should be locked up forever, and I mean forever, not releasing their bodies or ashes, reminding us all of what the scum have done and that they will never be relaeased.

However, the point that you are making is that you, yes you, could be the executioner. Or are you willing to leave the guilt of killing somebody to others, while you spout hatred nonsense to show how really ‘big’ you are?
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Do you really have to ask? You’re just a ‘big’ angry man who feels that this country owes you something. The people who do these heinous crimes should be locked up forever, and I mean forever, not releasing their bodies or ashes, reminding us all of what the scum have done and that they will never be relaeased.

However, the point that you are making is that you, yes you, could be the executioner. Or are you willing to leave the guilt of killing somebody to others, while you spout hatred nonsense to show how really ‘big’ you are?
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Wow..... just wow.

Really have nothing more to say to such incomprehensible drivel.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Wow..... just wow.

Really have nothing more to say to such incomprehensible drivel.
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Been reading yours for a while, sounds like Reform weren’t waiting for you, your were waiting for Reform since the Brexit Party, UKIP and BNP disappeared.

At least it’s given you somewhere to turn.

Now, are you ready to pull the trigger?
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Been reading yours for a while, sounds like Reform weren’t waiting for you, your were waiting for Reform since the Brexit Party, UKIP and BNP disappeared.

At least it’s given you somewhere to turn.

Now, are you ready to pull the trigger?
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More complete drivel....? Why?

Meaningless inaccurate and pointless.

All is wee so long as you are happy for millions of pounds to be wasted on keeping these criminals alive .
 
BigJoe#1 said:
More complete drivel....? Why?

Meaningless inaccurate and pointless.

All is wee so long as you are happy for millions of pounds to be wasted on keeping these criminals alive .
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Sound like Trump and his minions.

Come on Big Joe, step up to the plate, release that safety catch and be ready to pull the trigger. Surely you wouldn’t leave it to somebody else to live with the guilt?
 
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