The Album Review Club - Week #195 (page 1310) - A New World Record - ELO

Saddleworth2 said:
I’m afraid I have opted out (until someone puts forward a decent album) for that reason. I’d rather wallow in the 60’s.
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I've been a bit confused about the swings of opinions on this album so far.
You post might go some way to explain it.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
In what way mate?
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60's.
Thats 60 years ago.

It's a generation thing going on (music is generational).

The top rated album in the sub is from the early 70's, ~50 years ago.

There is only 1 album younger than 20 years old in the top 18.

The majority are 70's, 80's and 90's.
Assuming music makes its mark around your 20's, this would put the posters in this sub at about 70, 60, 50 years old.

I Don't think it contentious to suggest that modern albums (2000+) are going to be somewhat inaccessible to those age groups.

Obviously, some are more open than others, but generally, i think this causes high variations in scores for more modern stuff which we see here.
Looking at the album list, there is a clear pre-2000 bias to the pics.

TL:DR?

The sub is a bunch of old men pinning for the past :)
 
BlueHammer85 said:
I still think Euclid deserves a mention, yes it sounds AI and all the other criticism mentioned- but there’s something in this song that hits the spot.
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Only listened once but Are you really ok sounded great to me.
I also find the album interesting.

Perhaps 2 more spins may change that.
 
Mr Grumpy said:
60's.
Thats 60 years ago.

It's a generation thing going on (music is generational).

The top rated album in the sub is from the early 70's, ~50 years ago.

There is only 1 album younger than 20 years old in the top 18.

The majority are 70's, 80's and 90's.
Assuming music makes its mark around your 20's, this would put the posters in this sub at about 70, 60, 50 years old.

I Don't think it contentious to suggest that modern albums (2000+) are going to be somewhat inaccessible to those age groups.

Obviously, some are more open than others, but generally, i think this causes high variations in scores for more modern stuff which we see here.
Looking at the album list, there is a clear pre-2000 bias to the pics.

TL:DR?

The sub is a bunch of old men pinning for the past :)
Click to expand...
I thought that was maybe what you meant. Or maybe the music from the past is just better by any criteria you wish to choose (with a small number of exceptions). It’s not a case of openness. More about quality of songwriting, technical ability, lyrics, production, musicality, soulfulness……
With age comes wisdom ;-)
 
Mr Grumpy said:
60's.
Thats 60 years ago.

It's a generation thing going on (music is generational).

The top rated album in the sub is from the early 70's, ~50 years ago.

There is only 1 album younger than 20 years old in the top 18.

The majority are 70's, 80's and 90's.
Assuming music makes its mark around your 20's, this would put the posters in this sub at about 70, 60, 50 years old.

I Don't think it contentious to suggest that modern albums (2000+) are going to be somewhat inaccessible to those age groups.

Obviously, some are more open than others, but generally, i think this causes high variations in scores for more modern stuff which we see here.
Looking at the album list, there is a clear pre-2000 bias to the pics.

TL:DR?

The sub is a bunch of old men pinning for the past :)
Click to expand...
While I do listen to predominately older stuff I do listen and buy new albums if I like a song. In recent years I've bought albums by Celestial Mechanic, The Delines, Greta Van Fleet, The Slow Readers Club, Joseph, Midlake, Fader, Pigs(x6), Teen Mortgage, Walt Disco, Nova Twins...and more besides.

It's not as though good new music isn't out there but finding it is sometimes hard when you don't use Spotify, watch a lot of TV or use social media.

This thread, and others on here are a godsend sometimes. Unfortunately this weeks offering doesn't hit. Next weeks might. It's the beauty of it.
 
Mr Grumpy said:
60's.
Thats 60 years ago.

It's a generation thing going on (music is generational).

The top rated album in the sub is from the early 70's, ~50 years ago.

There is only 1 album younger than 20 years old in the top 18.

The majority are 70's, 80's and 90's.
Assuming music makes its mark around your 20's, this would put the posters in this sub at about 70, 60, 50 years old.

I Don't think it contentious to suggest that modern albums (2000+) are going to be somewhat inaccessible to those age groups.

Obviously, some are more open than others, but generally, i think this causes high variations in scores for more modern stuff which we see here.
Looking at the album list, there is a clear pre-2000 bias to the pics.

TL:DR?

The sub is a bunch of old men pinning for the past :)
Click to expand...

In fairness the remit of the thread is to nominate an album that has significant meaning for you or that you hold in great affection, so looking to the past is sort of the point. Though it's also fair to say there's a genre bias towards white fellas playing guitars which in itself is probably age related.

That said I can think of at least a dozen albums from last year I would probably give 7 or more out of 10. So if you put up something newish and I score it badly then I'll be ascribing it to your dodgy taste rather than my decrepitude ;-)

And for the record my 17 year old was familiar with this bands name but not the music so had a listen along as he sometimes does. He was scathing about it in a way that made Foggy and Bimbo sound like top Sleepyheads (or whatever the name for ST fans is).
 
Mr Grumpy said:
60's.
Thats 60 years ago.

It's a generation thing going on (music is generational).

The top rated album in the sub is from the early 70's, ~50 years ago.

There is only 1 album younger than 20 years old in the top 18.

The majority are 70's, 80's and 90's.
Assuming music makes its mark around your 20's, this would put the posters in this sub at about 70, 60, 50 years old.

I Don't think it contentious to suggest that modern albums (2000+) are going to be somewhat inaccessible to those age groups.

Obviously, some are more open than others, but generally, i think this causes high variations in scores for more modern stuff which we see here.
Looking at the album list, there is a clear pre-2000 bias to the pics.

TL:DR?

The sub is a bunch of old men pinning for the past :)
Click to expand...
Most of my favourite albums comes from the 80s and 90s, which is of course a product of my age.

However, there’s no doubt that objectively the best music, and the biggest advances in music, come from the 60s. You only have to listen to the songs on our Rock Evolution thread for evidence of that (although it was obvious to me before that).

Everything produced since has either (I) nudged music forward a little bit or in a slightly different direction or (ii) tried to be so different that it failed miserably.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I thought that was maybe what you meant. Or maybe the music from the past is just better by any criteria you wish to choose (with a small number of exceptions). It’s not a case of openness. More about quality of songwriting, technical ability, lyrics, production, musicality, soulfulness……
With age comes wisdom ;-)
Click to expand...
With age does come wisdom.

But also laziness. And a certain dulling.

Those things are true for us all unfortunately, thread or no thread.
 
BimboBob said:
While I do listen to predominately older stuff I do listen and buy new albums if I like a song. In recent years I've bought albums by Celestial Mechanic, The Delines, Greta Van Fleet, The Slow Readers Club, Joseph, Midlake, Fader, Pigs(x6), Teen Mortgage, Walt Disco, Nova Twins...and more besides.

It's not as though good new music isn't out there but finding it is sometimes hard when you don't use Spotify, watch a lot of TV or use social media.

This thread, and others on here are a godsend sometimes. Unfortunately this weeks offering doesn't hit. Next weeks might. It's the beauty of it.
Click to expand...

I sometimes think the ease of accessibility of music is its own worst enemy. Sure many more will come across things now than they woukd have but most of it will also be very fleeting and surface level perusal. Sometimes things take a little bit of effort or at least attention, to like. And I include myself in that.
 
RobMCFC said:
Most of my favourite albums comes from the 80s and 90s, which is of course a product of my age.

However, there’s no doubt that objectively the best music, and the biggest advances in music, come from the 60s. You only have to listen to the songs on our Rock Evolution thread for evidence of that (although it was obvious to me before that).

Everything produced since has either (I) nudged music forward a little bit or in a slightly different direction or (ii) tried to be so different that it failed miserably.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Sure, on the face of it, of course. But doesnt mean the quality is not there or sometines even exceeding the older. But our resistance definitely is.

If you asked the you in the 80s and 90s which music you preferred, that or something 50 years ago, I doubt you would have said stuff in the 30s. Yet people that were the age you are now would have made that claim. If you asked people that are the age you were then, whether they prefer the music of today over the 50s 60s, doubt many would go with 60s. It is inherent bias ans there is no way round it.

And is one of the side reasons I have been avoiding that thread (time as the main reason aside), because I feel it was set up on that very premise.
 
I'll expand on the above some more.

IMO, the reason folk fares well, and jazz, blues, general instrumantal etc and why they don't seem to have those types of generational divides - is ultimately because they as genres don't have snobbery that rock and its subsequent derivativions have accrued.

Within their own genres, they are not that different. People haven't 'moved music forward' or come up with something new, or even necessarily tried. But it doesn't seem to put off listeners that can't see past a decade or two, it is as loved and listened to as previous stuff. Don't know what it is about rock, rock-pop and things that evolved from it, that creates this rolling bias, but it is so prevalent to that type of music, and fanbase.
 
Coatigan said:
I sometimes think the ease of accessibility of music is its own worst enemy. Sure many more will come across things now than they woukd have but most of it will also be very fleeting and surface level perusal. Sometimes things take a little bit of effort or at least attention, to like. And I include myself in that.
Click to expand...
I may be an outlier here.

@BimboBob has said something that caught my attention about the accessibility of music.

When Google Play Music started, IIRC, it came with a free trial period and a very cheap subscription so i signed up. It was an absolute revelation to me. Not only did it give me access to a relatively infinite catalogue (as streaming services generally do), but it gave me the ability to scrobble.
I can't express how much of a industry (and personal) game changer this has been.
YTM and most streaming services now have a "Radio" button. Select a song, or playlist (crucially), or artist, hit the radio button and you get access to the music being played by those associated with those options. The amount of new, wonderful, music of all ages and genres this has unlocked for me has been priceless. It's like having your very own personal omnipotent DJ.
Because of the "Scrobble", i also get new albums highlighted in my discovery feed from my liked artists.
This means i actually listen to more modern music than old.
Music is like cheese. Sometimes it's only consumable when it's fresh out of the dairy, sometimes it needs to mature over time, sometimes it's good no matter when it's opened.
I thought The Strokes album had aged terribly and stank. I thought the Witch trials albums had kept itself reasonably fresh.

I mainly now listen to more modern music because the genre i like best continues to develop and produce excellence.

I'm unsure of what the name for that genre is tbh. It's a little fluid, it's a hybrid of Ambient, Classical, Electronic.

Peter Sandberg,
Max Richter,
John Hopkins,
Martin Sturtzer,
Brian Eno,
The Black dog,
Nils Frahm,
Hans Zimmer,

All kicking out new, evolving and excellent music. (Imho anyways).

My comment about old men pinning [sic] for the past, has it's roots in my thoughts about what album I'm going to put up when it's my turn.

Aphex Twin (!) has been put up here previously and got murdered. Shame because it's a legendary ambient masterpiece. But it utterly misses the target audience. I've been thinking about that. What's the point of offering Caviar and Champagne to a man brought up on chips and bitter?

I have one album in mind for my pick. It's deeply important to me, but honestly, it would be torture to those on this sub who just want rock and roll. This is supposed to be fun lol.
Perhaps this album would be too modern?
I've thought about offering up a classical album as this seems to be utterly missing from the picks. Would this be "Too modern"? Would classical music be too left field for the sub? Imagine that lol. (One could argue that it's absence clearly proves it so).

So, i have the opposite experience of @Saddleworth2 in this thread.

I'm inundated with old stuff but want to hear new stuff. (Well, i would have been had i been in the sub for a bit longer). The most recent offerings are, 2014, 2018, 2002.

I'm also considering an album for my pick which was only just released. I'm unsure as to wether this is a good idea lol.

Music isn't dead. It's doing what it always has and will. Changing.
 
Mr Grumpy said:
I may be an outlier here.

@BimboBob has said something that caught my attention about the accessibility of music.

When Google Play Music started, IIRC, it came with a free trial period and a very cheap subscription so i signed up. It was an absolute revelation to me. Not only did it give me access to a relatively infinite catalogue (as streaming services generally do), but it gave me the ability to scrobble.
I can't express how much of a industry (and personal) game changer this has been.
YTM and most streaming services now have a "Radio" button. Select a song, or playlist (crucially), or artist, hit the radio button and you get access to the music being played by those associated with those options. The amount of new, wonderful, music of all ages and genres this has unlocked for me has been priceless. It's like having your very own personal omnipotent DJ.
Because of the "Scrobble", i also get new albums highlighted in my discovery feed from my liked artists.
This means i actually listen to more modern music than old.
Music is like cheese. Sometimes it's only consumable when it's fresh out of the dairy, sometimes it needs to mature over time, sometimes it's good no matter when it's opened.
I thought The Strokes album had aged terribly and stank. I thought the Witch trials albums had kept itself reasonably fresh.

I mainly now listen to more modern music because the genre i like best continues to develop and produce excellence.

I'm unsure of what the name for that genre is tbh. It's a little fluid, it's a hybrid of Ambient, Classical, Electronic.

Peter Sandberg,
Max Richter,
John Hopkins,
Martin Sturtzer,
Brian Eno,
The Black dog,
Nils Frahm,
Hans Zimmer,

All kicking out new, evolving and excellent music. (Imho anyways).

My comment about old men pinning [sic] for the past, has it's roots in my thoughts about what album I'm going to put up when it's my turn.

Aphex Twin (!) has been put up here previously and got murdered. Shame because it's a legendary ambient masterpiece. But it utterly misses the target audience. I've been thinking about that. What's the point of offering Caviar and Champagne to a man brought up on chips and bitter?

I have one album in mind for my pick. It's deeply important to me, but honestly, it would be torture to those on this sub who just want rock and roll. This is supposed to be fun lol.
Perhaps this album would be too modern?
I've thought about offering up a classical album as this seems to be utterly missing from the picks. Would this be "Too modern"? Would classical music be too left field for the sub? Imagine that lol. (One could argue that it's absence clearly proves it so).

So, i have the opposite experience of @Saddleworth2 in this thread.

I'm inundated with old stuff but want to hear new stuff. (Well, i would have been had i been in the sub for a bit longer). The most recent offerings are, 2014, 2018, 2002.

I'm also considering an album for my pick which was only just released. I'm unsure as to wether this is a good idea lol.

Music isn't dead. It's doing what it always has and will. Changing.
Click to expand...
You will see from most of my picks that I have a deeply personal connection to them. To hell what other people think! So you pick whatever album you want. If one person likes it and hadn't heard of it before this thread then it has done it's job.
 
Some really interesting points coming up here, a few random observations on various comments.

I don't think you can deny the criticality of the '60s in the development of popular music and I think there is a confluence of technological and as importantly socioeconomic drivers behind this explosion that would be hard to recreate in subsequent decades. However where I diverge with @RobMCFC is the later rise and impact of electronic music and instruments. I think (and sorry if I'm misrepresenting you Rob) he sees that as a diminishing of the craft of making music whereas I see it as the next evolution. I'm down to do 1980 on the other thread and I'm going to try and focus on this if it's not already been discussed by then.

However where I have some sympathy with Rob and where I think @Coatigan 's very relevant comment about modern streaming platforms comes in, is that the bar to create a facimile of 'proper' music and get it out into the world is much lower now. In theory this further democratisation of artistic creation should lead to more volume, much of which is pap but some of which rises to the top and increases that top end with even greater quality. But it doesn't work like that. Like many things in modern life, it's not the introduction of the technology to create the artifact that's the problem, it's the business models used to exploit the tech that is problematic. I would agree that whilst in theory streaming technology is a music lovers dream (and if like @Mr Grumpy you work with it to help you curate your music it's good) but overall has actually diminished the act of listening to music in a broader cultural way. It didn't have to, but modern business practices and culture have made it so.

(As an aside Coatigan I think your absence from the rock evolution thread is a shame, you would have added a lot and I think possibly got more than you imagine from it).

Re. Coatigan's comment about rock fans general arseyness in comparison to other genres I think there's an element of a community under siege. Rock was preeminent for an extended period and is now on its haunches in terms of the mainstream, so it's kind of understandable. I'm not saying it hasn't always been a bit elitist but you can understand if it is somewhat now. It would be interesting to go back to the point that Jazz lost it's preeminence as 'the' popular music to see if any parallels exist. The rolling bias point is an interesting hypothesis but too big to address in a single post.

Grumpa you are right about having to temper your choices, there are a few beloved albums I see no joy (for me or everyone else) in nominating but that's just sensible curation and judgement that needs to happen on any thread. It's not really a reflection on the music or the audience I think. I have two of the 8 artists you mention down as possible future nominees myself and from some on that list I think depending on the album you pick, you might be surprised at the response.

Enjoyable discussion this.
 
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BlueHammer85 said:
I still think Euclid deserves a mention, yes it sounds AI and all the other criticism mentioned- but there’s something in this song that hits the spot.
Click to expand...
When I give this LP a spin to people who don’t like Sleep Token (or metal in general) they will pretty much not like what they’re hearing… until Euclid. They’ll kind of respond to Are You Really Okay? and/or Aqua Regia, but for some reason, non-fans proper tune in to Euclid. Oddly, nobody is ever able to articulate why they like it, it’s more about the way the music made them feel, the sound… I dunno, music does funny things to folk.

If by 'AI' you mean the electronic vocal effect, it's just an artistic in-studio choice and they do use backing singers to recreate that live. The coda of ‘Euclid’ is a call-back to the first track on their first LP so it kind of bookends the first 3 records.
 
Mr Grumpy said:
I may be an outlier here.

@BimboBob has said something that caught my attention about the accessibility of music.

When Google Play Music started, IIRC, it came with a free trial period and a very cheap subscription so i signed up. It was an absolute revelation to me. Not only did it give me access to a relatively infinite catalogue (as streaming services generally do), but it gave me the ability to scrobble.
I can't express how much of a industry (and personal) game changer this has been.
YTM and most streaming services now have a "Radio" button. Select a song, or playlist (crucially), or artist, hit the radio button and you get access to the music being played by those associated with those options. The amount of new, wonderful, music of all ages and genres this has unlocked for me has been priceless. It's like having your very own personal omnipotent DJ.
Because of the "Scrobble", i also get new albums highlighted in my discovery feed from my liked artists.
This means i actually listen to more modern music than old.
Music is like cheese. Sometimes it's only consumable when it's fresh out of the dairy, sometimes it needs to mature over time, sometimes it's good no matter when it's opened.
I thought The Strokes album had aged terribly and stank. I thought the Witch trials albums had kept itself reasonably fresh.

I mainly now listen to more modern music because the genre i like best continues to develop and produce excellence.

I'm unsure of what the name for that genre is tbh. It's a little fluid, it's a hybrid of Ambient, Classical, Electronic.

Peter Sandberg,
Max Richter,
John Hopkins,
Martin Sturtzer,
Brian Eno,
The Black dog,
Nils Frahm,
Hans Zimmer,

All kicking out new, evolving and excellent music. (Imho anyways).

My comment about old men pinning [sic] for the past, has it's roots in my thoughts about what album I'm going to put up when it's my turn.

Aphex Twin (!) has been put up here previously and got murdered. Shame because it's a legendary ambient masterpiece. But it utterly misses the target audience. I've been thinking about that. What's the point of offering Caviar and Champagne to a man brought up on chips and bitter?

I have one album in mind for my pick. It's deeply important to me, but honestly, it would be torture to those on this sub who just want rock and roll. This is supposed to be fun lol.
Perhaps this album would be too modern?
I've thought about offering up a classical album as this seems to be utterly missing from the picks. Would this be "Too modern"? Would classical music be too left field for the sub? Imagine that lol. (One could argue that it's absence clearly proves it so).

So, i have the opposite experience of @Saddleworth2 in this thread.

I'm inundated with old stuff but want to hear new stuff. (Well, i would have been had i been in the sub for a bit longer). The most recent offerings are, 2014, 2018, 2002.

I'm also considering an album for my pick which was only just released. I'm unsure as to wether this is a good idea lol.

Music isn't dead. It's doing what it always has and will. Changing.
Click to expand...
Aphex Twin hit it's target audience but missed this audience. I commented that was a landmark record at the time.
I have Jon Hopkins albums which I enjoy but I thought the idea of this thread was to put up something personal to you or albums you like irrespective of genre.
I also have Erland Cooper's stuff
The scores don't matter apparently so if you turn one person on to the artists listed that's job done.
I was listening to Steel Pulse Handsworth Revolution last night and I wondered how that would go down on this thread.
 
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